Distance Selling: "Made to Order"

tightauldgit

In short, no. Leather goods are not exempt from consumer protections. 

ETA: And as we already told you MTO is a red herring so it doesn't matter if they were or weren't.

Manxman_in_exile

No.  Being made of leather makes no difference.

As already explained you have a statutory right to cancel a distance contract for up to 14 days after delivery.  But you must clearly tell the trader that that is what you are doing.  eg "I'm notifying you that I'm exercising my right to cancel my order number 123 under regulation 29 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) "

You then have a further 14 days after notifying them in which to send the goods back to them.

So long as you have not asked for the goods to be either "personalised" or made to "your specifications" (reg 28(1)(b) ), you can cancel the contract, made of leather or not and made to order or not. If you have simply chosen from a list or a range of options offered by the trader, this is generally considered not to be made to your specifications, so you can still cancel within 14 days.

If you are happy that you've neither personalised them nor asked for them to be made to your specification, and you are still within 14 days, go back to them and cancel the order as suggested above and tell them you want a full refund.

You can also tell them that the law says they aren't permitted to charge a restocking fee as regulation 34 basically says you are entitled to a full refund.

Depending on exactly what their T&Cs say, you might be responsible for paying for the cost of sending them back*.


*What do their T&Cs say about when a contrcat is formed?  If they say a contract is only formed on dispatch of the goods and they haven't sent them yet, there is nothing to stop you withdrawing your offer to buy before a contrcat is formed.  There is then no question about who pays the return costs as they won't have sent them to you.

skymole

DullGreyGuy said:

Their terms are broadly irrelevant (other than you being responsible for return costs for change of mind) as you would be rejecting the goods under the Consumer Contracts Regulations and their terms cannot override your statutory rights if its a UK company

Thanks for your reply - my instinct is the same as yours, however I have just talked to a trading standards rep in the Citizens Advice Bureau who is telling me that it is legal to exclude items from CCR by making an exception in your Ts & Cs... It seems there is no available process to escalate to trading standards..

DullGreyGuy

skymole said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Their terms are broadly irrelevant (other than you being responsible for return costs for change of mind) as you would be rejecting the goods under the Consumer Contracts Regulations and their terms cannot override your statutory rights if its a UK company

Thanks for your reply - my instinct is the same as yours, however I have just talked to a trading standards rep in the Citizens Advice Bureau who is telling me that it is legal to exclude items from CCR by making an exception in your Ts & Cs... It seems there is no available process to escalate to trading standards..

CAB is now the gateway to TS... even before that they were for a long time the sort that said they didnt take on individual cases.

The CCR does list goods that are excluded from it but they are things like gold bullion where the price fluctuates notably with market movements (else you could buy and if the price crashed then return it for a refund) or items that are perishable (you cant buy flowers and return them 14 days later). None of the exclusions would apply to leather other than the "personalised or made to the customers specifications" which doesnt apply in your case.

Simply return the items and await whatever refund may come, if its not a full refund then issue a letter before action for the remainder of the monies, then issue a court proceedings via MCOL

skymole

*What do their T&Cs say about when a contrcat is formed?  If they say a contract is only formed on dispatch of the goods and they haven't sent them yet, there is nothing to stop you withdrawing your offer to buy before a contrcat is formed.  There is then no question about who pays the return costs as they won't have sent them to you.

The goods were already dispatched and I have returned them and requested a refund all within the 14 day period.

It is disappointing that CAB are apparently giving totally incorrect information and were adamant that the trader was completely within their rights to introduce exceptions to the provisions of CCR and that these would be legally binding.
CAB told me that the trader was within their rights to refuse a refund.

I imagine that limited resources mean limited expertise.

Thanks again for your detailed advice 

skymole

Thank you everyone for the clarification and advice.
What you have all said is consistent with everything I have read from CCR 2013 and CRA 2015.

tightauldgit

skymole said:

*What do their T&Cs say about when a contrcat is formed?  If they say a contract is only formed on dispatch of the goods and they haven't sent them yet, there is nothing to stop you withdrawing your offer to buy before a contrcat is formed.  There is then no question about who pays the return costs as they won't have sent them to you.

The goods were already dispatched and I have returned them and requested a refund all within the 14 day period.

It is disappointing that CAB are apparently giving totally incorrect information and were adamant that the trader was completely within their rights to introduce exceptions to the provisions of CCR and that these would be legally binding.
CAB told me that the trader was within their rights to refuse a refund.

I imagine that limited resources mean limited expertise.

Thanks again for your detailed advice 

That's brilliant. I can set up a website selling iPhones, state on it that phones are excluded from consumer rights and then when my customers receive a mouldy cheese sandwich instead of a phone they have no right to return it! Yay for Trading Standards! I'm gonna be rich! 

Manxman_in_exile

skymole said:

*What do their T&Cs say about when a contrcat is formed?  If they say a contract is only formed on dispatch of the goods and they haven't sent them yet, there is nothing to stop you withdrawing your offer to buy before a contrcat is formed.  There is then no question about who pays the return costs as they won't have sent them to you.

... It is disappointing that CAB are apparently giving totally incorrect information and were adamant that the trader was completely within their rights to introduce exceptions to the provisions of CCR and that these would be legally binding.
CAB told me that the trader was within their rights to refuse a refund.

I imagine that limited resources mean limited expertise...

If I were you I think I'd want to go back to CAB and challenge them on that as I can't believe it's correct.

What I will say is that whereas the Consumer Rights Act 2015 specifically states that a trader cannot exclude liability under that legislation (see s57) I don't think that there is a corresponding specific provision in the Consumer Contracts (etc) Regulations - although I may be mistaken about that.

Personally I find it almost impossible to believe that Parliament could have intended that traders would be able to contract out of the "distance sale" cancellation rules, so I assume I must be missing something right in front of me.

Or maybe I'm not...

Manxman_in_exile

tightauldgit said:

skymole said:

*What do their T&Cs say about when a contrcat is formed?  If they say a contract is only formed on dispatch of the goods and they haven't sent them yet, there is nothing to stop you withdrawing your offer to buy before a contrcat is formed.  There is then no question about who pays the return costs as they won't have sent them to you.

The goods were already dispatched and I have returned them and requested a refund all within the 14 day period.

It is disappointing that CAB are apparently giving totally incorrect information and were adamant that the trader was completely within their rights to introduce exceptions to the provisions of CCR and that these would be legally binding.
CAB told me that the trader was within their rights to refuse a refund.

I imagine that limited resources mean limited expertise.

Thanks again for your detailed advice 

That's brilliant. I can set up a website selling iPhones, state on it that phones are excluded from consumer rights and then when my customers receive a mouldy cheese sandwich instead of a phone they have no right to return it! Yay for Trading Standards! I'm gonna be rich! 

I don't think CAB are saying traders can contrcat out of the Consumer Rights Act, I assume they're talking about The Consumer Contrcats (Information etc) Regulations.

CAB appear to be saying that traders can use their T&Cs to prevent consumers exercising their statutory right to cancel by excluding certain goods.  eg ones made of leather!

Wonder what the CAB guys are smoking...