Transited carpark without stopping or parking, fighting ANPR based penalty

MadMarsupial

It's a bit of an odd geographical situation, but I had to drive under a ANPR camera to get somewhere and now the parking company are playing the usual silly buggers.

There is a long standing sporting club at the far end of a newly built car park. I had to collect some equipment from the club for repair, so I drove through the carpark and was immediately admitted by a club member into the club's private compound via a locked gate. After collecting the equipment I exited via the access road which is through the carpark.

As I exited I realised that the ANPR camera would register me and that I'd get a penalty notice, but I was confident that since I had not parked or stopped or done anything in the carpark at all (I have multiple witnesses and the sporting equipment is not visible in the photo upon entry but is visible upon exit) that the initial appeal would be simple enough. But no...

I'm off to POPLA next, but want to get as much advice and information ready first.

Can anyone offer any wisdom on this scenario?

- the set up doesn't take into account the private club access (ie they are presuming that the only reason to enter/exit is parking and that there is no other way to go so therefore you *must* be parking)

- I didn't park, stand, drop off, pick up, circle aimlessly in the carpark at all.

- I was actually in the carpark for a total of about 30 seconds (time to drive in and later drive out), despite the ANPR camera photos being timestamped with a longer interval.

- The sporting club does have a list of approved vehicles on file with the parking company to prevent constant false tickets being issued, so parking company should be aware of the 'exit' to the carpark.

- I at least two witnessess.

- The company's images support my story (equipment collection)

I have a memory that drivers get a 'grace period' to prevent issuing of penalties in cases like entering a parking area only to find no empty spots, then exiting. Pretty sure that 30 seconds is within that!

Many thanks in advance.

Boat_to_Bolivia

You need to start with Plan A. Contact the sporting club and ask them to get the PCN cancelled.

MadMarsupial

Boat_to_Bolivia said:

You need to start with Plan A. Contact the sporting club and ask them to get the PCN cancelled.

Not their car park so I'm not sure if they have any sway, but I can ask.

It's a council owned area (I think) with other sporting facilities like tennis courts and soccer pitches.

Coupon-mad

It's not Council owned if they are using a PPC.  The sports club can cancel it.

Try that first.

Which PPC?

You have a whole month to use a POPLA Code, so DON'T yet (because it's fairly useless) but if you do end up having to try POPLA, you will need photo evidence of this:

 I drove through the carpark and was immediately admitted by a club member into the club's private compound via a locked gate

MadMarsupial

I've got the details of the club secretary and have asked the question. Even if he has no direct control (area of new carpark built on land that was never theirs, so other clubs may have power) he may know who to contact.

Civil Enforcement is the firm.

Going to get everything researched first, so no rush.

No photo of me in the club compound, but 8 metre long boats don't just load themselves onto cars so I'm not sure that is a real issue. With two witnesses willing to make statements and the circumstances you'd have to be pretty thick not to work it out - but I'll be honest that my knowledge base is Australian criminal law and evidence standards and I have no idea how genuinely independent/intelligent POPLA is.

Half_way

It would appear we have Two car parks/ areas here.

At a guess...

 Area 1 the newly tarmacked car park infested with a parking company

 Area 2: the sports clubs compound, this is accessed by going through area 1,

Who owns area 1?

And where is it

The sporting club does have a list of approved vehicles on file with the parking company to prevent constant false tickets being issued, so parking company should be aware of the 'exit' to the carpark.

It will help to see where this place is,  ( map link) as we can offer advice on things like easements , right to pass/re pass etc etc

And why is the Sports club allowing its access to be restricted by a parking company.

 What is the relationship between area 1 and area 2?

B789

Sounds exactly like this thread: Private driveway

It never ends nicely when dealing with bottom-dwelling PPCs.

prowla

Is there a right of way?

MadMarsupial

Half_way said:

It would appear we have Two car parks/ areas here.

<sinp>

It will help to see where this place is,  ( map link) as we can offer advice on things like easements , right to pass/re pass etc etc

And why is the Sports club allowing its access to be restricted by a parking company.

 What is the relationship between area 1 and area 2?

It's the new car park behind Quintin Boat Club off Hartington Road, Chiswick. Too new to be shown on the maps or satelite images.

(I tried to post a link but I'm too new for that) Postcode W4 3UD

New carpark is between Ibis Lane and a line that would go through what is marked as "Hogg Pavillion" on the Google Map. Tennis courts (new) and a playing field are in the land beside Chiswick Bridge/Clifford Ave.

Access to club used to be via Ibis Lane. There is still a possible entrance via that route but it is now locked, but the next door rowing club (Mortlake Anglian and Alpha) still use Ibis Lane. The new gate I entered is on a new road that is pretty much 90deg to the Thames River and heads up to the car park entrance on Hartington Road.

Sporting club doesn't need widespread general access for members to park (access is only really for service vehicles, boat towing trailers), so having access to a larger 'public' carpark that they haven't had to pay for (I presume) is probably an advantage for the members/club. I'm told by a third party that the club has given a list of known/frequent vehicles to the parking company to prevent constant tickets on vehicles needing access (ie the clubs boat trailer towing truck)

Area 1 is former playing fields and open land.

Area 2 is the immediate area around the boat houses, enclosed with a fence which had been updated as part of the carpark works.

Not sure of the legal or contractual links or obligations between the various parties.

Coupon-mad

I'm told by a third party that the club has given a list of known/frequent vehicles to the parking company to prevent constant tickets on vehicles needing access (ie the clubs boat trailer towing truck).

Therefore, they DO have influence and a right to exempt vehicles from PCNs,  AND the PPC knows full well that there is a problem.

But if the boat club refuse to actually cancel (or tell you who can cancel it) then you need to get this information set out from the Boat Club manager by email, not as hearsay, as evidence will help for POPLA.  Word of mouth won't.

MadMarsupial

B789 said:

Sounds exactly like this thread: Private driveway

It never ends nicely when dealing with bottom-dwelling PPCs.

Thanks for that link. On a quick scan it is dealing with the same overall issue, but from the viewpoint that the sporting club might have rather than me.

Will give it more of a read.