Can I get PIP for Mental Health even if I don't take psych medication?

RealGem

Hi,

I have now been informed I can get PIP for my multiple mental / neurological conditions; ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Aspergers and Bipolar. 

I also have chronic pain and have three types of pain killers on prescription. But I have always refused psych drugs because I am a member of several groups and from what I have learend from others is they are basically guinea-pigs for doctors to see what works best. 

And that it can take YEARS to find the right psych drugs. 

I've heard nightmare stories of severe irreversible side effects of Lithium... Poor side effects for ADHD drugs... being incorrectly diagnosed as being scitzophrenic for over 20 years... and for some, daily life being made so hard by the drugs prescribed that the patient could hardly function at all, and needed to sleep all day most days. 

So for my mental health I chose the healthy sleep, diet and exercise route instead. I already found day to day living hard enough. I could not bare to imagine it being even worse. 

But without psych medication, can I still claim PIP?

Thank you in advance

elsien

PIP does not depend on diagnosis or medication. If you are working with professionals who can provide supporting evidence, that can be around how your mental health and other conditions impact you rather than being specifically around medication.  

In part because if medication helps people to function much more effectively, and for some people it does, then they may score less points because their needs are less acute. Other people may struggle regardless of the medication their on.

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

elsien

Here you go.

https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/pip-mental-health-guide/

RealGem

elsien said:

PIP does not depend on diagnosis or medication. If you are working with professionals who can provide supporting evidence, that can be around how your mental health and other conditions impact you rather than being specifically around medication.  

In part because if medication helps people to function much more effectively, and for some people it does, then they may score less points because their needs are less acute. Other people may struggle regardless of the medication their on.

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Thanks a lot @Elsien

Wonka_2

elsien said:

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Genuinely interested in this, and with no ulterior motive, but what happens in a situation where the condition has an impact on the management of day to day life but 'treatment' could improve that.

Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used or put conditions on the PIP i.e. time/review date/treatment etc

elsien

Wonka_2 said:

elsien said:

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Genuinely interested in this, and with no ulterior motive, but what happens in a situation where the condition has an impact on the management of day to day life but 'treatment' could improve that.

Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used or put conditions on the PIP i.e. time/review date/treatment etc

You could say that about a lot of physical health conditions - people who have COPD who continue to smoke, or with diabetes who could make different diet choices. PIP isn't about making value judgements about someone's lifestyle, but about assessing the impact of their health on their care and support needs. It's up the person's GP/medical professional to have any discussions about treatment options. For some people the side effects are worse than the medication, or their lifestyle options are limited so they do what makes life bearable,  and that is not a civil servants role to pass judgement on. 

The guidance says that why someone is taking a medication is not relevant. I presume it's the same for people not taking medication. 
The reason I put the medication example is because you could have people with bipolar who both take lithium, one of whom is very stable, has few side effects and needs minimal support whereas the other may have  mental health is still swinging to extremes no matter what they do or try. The relevance is purely that one may need more support than the other. 

[Deleted User]

Wonka_2 said:

elsien said:

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Genuinely interested in this, and with no ulterior motive, but what happens in a situation where the condition has an impact on the management of day to day life but 'treatment' could improve that.

Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used or put conditions on the PIP i.e. time/review date/treatment etc

If someone told a doctor "I do not want to undergo this treatment, but a DWP employee has told me I have to". It would be against medical ethics to give the treatment. Consent has to be given voluntarily and freely, without pressure or undue influence being exerted on the person either to accept or refuse treatment. The medical ethics I believe were established after the second word war to prevent the errors of the past being repeated. 

Rubyroobs

Wonka_2 said:

elsien said:

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Genuinely interested in this, and with no ulterior motive, but what happens in a situation where the condition has an impact on the management of day to day life but 'treatment' could improve that.

Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used or put conditions on the PIP i.e. time/review date/treatment etc

I was present at a tribunal recently where the appellant was questioned on why she had not been to her GP for 10 years for her debilitating condition and why she had refused surgery in the past which could have helped her..

Alice_Holt

Rubyroobs said:

Wonka_2 said:

elsien said:

PIP is related to the impact that your conditions have on your ability to manage day-to-day life. What you need to do is read some of the guidance that is out there about how to score points with the different descriptors and then relate it to your own situation. There is guidance  specifically around mental health and Pip which I will post a link to if I can find it.

Genuinely interested in this, and with no ulterior motive, but what happens in a situation where the condition has an impact on the management of day to day life but 'treatment' could improve that.

Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used or put conditions on the PIP i.e. time/review date/treatment etc

I was present at a tribunal recently where the appellant was questioned on why she had not been to her GP for 10 years for her debilitating condition and why she had refused surgery in the past which could have helped her..

     Yes, I've seen similar.  

  "Do assessors have the right to challenge why treatment isn't being used.." 
  With no medication (or counselling / input of a MH professional), the assessor is likely to conclude that the condition isn't severe enough to meet the PIP criteria.

Muttleythefrog

Simple answer yes you can. Receiving ongoing treatment can obviously be useful to show continuing medically diagnosed conditions or symptoms that could be underpinning explanation as to disablements relevant to PIP. But I haven't had any psychiatric or other medical input for around 12 years and I get PIP and also separately am considered to have limited capability for work (related activity) so get ESA. What I tend to put (and will do again soon as my review form is sitting looking at me now) is that medication has been tried unsuccessfully and other treatment options exhausted and in assessments paper based or otherwise they do pick up on this and run with it satisfactorily to determine that while there is currently no treatment being provided that can be explained alongside the claimed severe difficulties. The lack of treatment could also feed in to how they may consider the longevity of the problems and therefore award lengths - often for me they state condition could change in future if treatment options arise or are engaged.

The issue of treatment being recommended or queried. I have had that.. I even had a nurse recommending I try some different anti depressive medications if I recall correctly at a WCA assessment which definitely seems out with their role and remit not to mention medical ethics. At a historical Appeal tribunal for DLA I was queried by the GP on the panel whether I would engage further treatment and I spoke about my resistance to that given the harm medical professionals had caused me... he reacted so badly to that he threatened to come and punch me (the 'judge' tried to hide his face and his shock).... which was frankly extraordinary and not something I've ever seen similar regarding being reported.... I can only assume on that day his own meds were not working or his wife left him.

You can apply and above comments refer to advice... crucial is understanding the activities looked at and how you are affected such that you will score points (descriptors) which will lead to an award. It can be a tough slog to get award often... but good luck!

Foxy16

The DM on my latest PIP assessment, has considered that my health conditions have improved, due to the fact that I am not taking prescribed medication, (I am limited to what I can take due to other medication I take), as the side effects were awful, and that I am not getting treatment for other conditions, which I have never been offered, so can't work that one out.