Section 21 - please tell me if this is valid and what I can do if anything

Ratkin007

Check the council website to see if there is a selective licensing scheme in place. If there is, check if the property falls in the scheme area. If it does, check if the property has a licence.  If the property is in a licensable area but has no licence the notice is invalid.

newsgroupmonkey_

topgearfan08 said:

saajan_12 said:

Re the gas safety reports, nothing definite that kills the S21 notice, as you had valid reports at the start of the tenancy and when the S21 was issued. Currently, they are working on a fix to the issues, 1 month isn't unreasonable for work to start, to allow for diagnosing, getting courts and sourcing parts. 

The S21 notice means they may go to court once it expires - to clarify what's the date on the actual notice (regardless of what they might have told you separately)? 
Once the notice expires, the LL has to apply to court, wait for a hearing date, wait for the possession order date, apply for bailiffs and wait for bailiffs to attend. All in, that could be 2-8 months, so you're likely beyond the school year anyway. It may cost you some money for the court and bailiff fees which you're liable to reimburse, but that might work out better for you. 

You may also be able to argue the gas safety point at the court hearing and buy even more time, but doesn't seem crucial. 

you say some money....   The court fees are £355 minimum last time I checked, plus more if they claim other expenses for attending etc.   Bailifs even more.   If these cant be paid in full quickly if awarded you will have a CCJ, which will ruin your renting future and credit.

On the flip side, the S21 is invalid. So none of this is due.

The Landlord would then need to re-submit the S21 and hey presto, it's the end of July even if they got a court date 1 day after the original S21 expired (which they won't).

Chances are, the first date available would be the end of July or maybe early August. At which point the OP has handed in their notice, no court appearances are needed, no costs due (providing the OP continues to pay their rent).

I know you're getting angry on behalf of landlords, but in this case, the vexed, stupid, dangerous and unprofessional landlord is going to get what they deserve.

Frankly, I'd be calling the council in. The S21 would have to be immediately rescinded as it's invalid for a house needing repairs.

Landlords: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Hannahtams

I definitely don't want to go to court - I don't want any kind of conflict to deal with.

 I have emailed the agents and asked to stay longer and pointed out that the Section 21 COULD be invalid due to the gas safety check. It definitely failed the inspection - the boiler has a sign on it saying 'DANGER - SAFETY WARNING - DO NOT USE". 

Thank you all for your help, i'll let you know what they come back with.

propertyrental

Hannahtams said:

I definitely don't want to go to court - I don't want any kind of conflict to deal with.

 I have emailed the agents and asked to stay longer and pointed out that the Section 21 COULD be invalid due to the gas safety check. It definitely failed the inspection - the boiler has a sign on it saying 'DANGER - SAFETY WARNING - DO NOT USE". 

Thank you all for your help, i'll let you know what they come back with.

never mind what the sign on the boiler says; what does the gas report say?

macman

Hannahtams said:

I definitely don't want to go to court - I don't want any kind of conflict to deal with.

 I have emailed the agents and asked to stay longer and pointed out that the Section 21 COULD be invalid due to the gas safety check. It definitely failed the inspection - the boiler has a sign on it saying 'DANGER - SAFETY WARNING - DO NOT USE". 

Thank you all for your help, i'll let you know what they come back with.

You already have a conflict: the court is simply a method to resolve it. But if you decline to leave at the end of the notice period, then it will be several months before this would go anywhere near a court. 
If the S21 is invalid for any one of a myriad of reasons, then when it gets to a hearing, the application for a possession order will be rejected and the LL would have to start again, regularise the tenancy and serve a new S21. By which time you will have vacated anyway.

topgearfan08

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

topgearfan08 said:

saajan_12 said:

Re the gas safety reports, nothing definite that kills the S21 notice, as you had valid reports at the start of the tenancy and when the S21 was issued. Currently, they are working on a fix to the issues, 1 month isn't unreasonable for work to start, to allow for diagnosing, getting courts and sourcing parts. 

The S21 notice means they may go to court once it expires - to clarify what's the date on the actual notice (regardless of what they might have told you separately)? 
Once the notice expires, the LL has to apply to court, wait for a hearing date, wait for the possession order date, apply for bailiffs and wait for bailiffs to attend. All in, that could be 2-8 months, so you're likely beyond the school year anyway. It may cost you some money for the court and bailiff fees which you're liable to reimburse, but that might work out better for you. 

You may also be able to argue the gas safety point at the court hearing and buy even more time, but doesn't seem crucial. 

you say some money....   The court fees are £355 minimum last time I checked, plus more if they claim other expenses for attending etc.   Bailifs even more.   If these cant be paid in full quickly if awarded you will have a CCJ, which will ruin your renting future and credit.

On the flip side, the S21 is invalid. So none of this is due.

The Landlord would then need to re-submit the S21 and hey presto, it's the end of July even if they got a court date 1 day after the original S21 expired (which they won't).

Chances are, the first date available would be the end of July or maybe early August. At which point the OP has handed in their notice, no court appearances are needed, no costs due (providing the OP continues to pay their rent).

I know you're getting angry on behalf of landlords, but in this case, the vexed, stupid, dangerous and unprofessional landlord is going to get what they deserve.

Frankly, I'd be calling the council in. The S21 would have to be immediately rescinded as it's invalid for a house needing repairs.

Landlords: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Im not angry on behalf of landlords, just pointing out what they could be liable for if the S21 was in fact valid.

It's clowns like their landlord that give us good ones a bad name.   They need locking up.

** COULD the poster be liable for the court fees, even if they vacate before a court hearing, if it's filed and correct and valid, because they overstayed the end of their notice period?    Im not an expert on this bit, but in theory once filed it could just go before a judge to be rubber stamped once in motion?? ***

ArbitraryRandom

topgearfan08 said:

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

topgearfan08 said:

saajan_12 said:

Re the gas safety reports, nothing definite that kills the S21 notice, as you had valid reports at the start of the tenancy and when the S21 was issued. Currently, they are working on a fix to the issues, 1 month isn't unreasonable for work to start, to allow for diagnosing, getting courts and sourcing parts. 

The S21 notice means they may go to court once it expires - to clarify what's the date on the actual notice (regardless of what they might have told you separately)? 
Once the notice expires, the LL has to apply to court, wait for a hearing date, wait for the possession order date, apply for bailiffs and wait for bailiffs to attend. All in, that could be 2-8 months, so you're likely beyond the school year anyway. It may cost you some money for the court and bailiff fees which you're liable to reimburse, but that might work out better for you. 

You may also be able to argue the gas safety point at the court hearing and buy even more time, but doesn't seem crucial. 

you say some money....   The court fees are £355 minimum last time I checked, plus more if they claim other expenses for attending etc.   Bailifs even more.   If these cant be paid in full quickly if awarded you will have a CCJ, which will ruin your renting future and credit.

On the flip side, the S21 is invalid. So none of this is due.

The Landlord would then need to re-submit the S21 and hey presto, it's the end of July even if they got a court date 1 day after the original S21 expired (which they won't).

Chances are, the first date available would be the end of July or maybe early August. At which point the OP has handed in their notice, no court appearances are needed, no costs due (providing the OP continues to pay their rent).

I know you're getting angry on behalf of landlords, but in this case, the vexed, stupid, dangerous and unprofessional landlord is going to get what they deserve.

Frankly, I'd be calling the council in. The S21 would have to be immediately rescinded as it's invalid for a house needing repairs.

Landlords: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Im not angry on behalf of landlords, just pointing out what they could be liable for if the S21 was in fact valid.

It's clowns like their landlord that give us good ones a bad name.   They need locking up.

** COULD the poster be liable for the court fees, even if they vacate before a court hearing, if it's filed and correct and valid, because they overstayed the end of their notice period?    Im not an expert on this bit, but in theory once filed it could just go before a judge to be rubber stamped once in motion?? ***

The £355 is paid on filing (you have to pay to submit online, or send a cheque with the paper forms), so if the S21 is found to be valid then it would be reclaimable from the tenant even if the vacate before the court date. 

BUT £355 might be worth paying depending on why the OP wishes to stay in the property until the end of the school year. 

theartfullodger

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

topgearfan08 said:

saajan_12 said:

Re the gas safety reports, nothing definite that kills the S21 notice, as you had valid reports at the start of the tenancy and when the S21 was issued. Currently, they are working on a fix to the issues, 1 month isn't unreasonable for work to start, to allow for diagnosing, getting courts and sourcing parts. 

The S21 notice means they may go to court once it expires - to clarify what's the date on the actual notice (regardless of what they might have told you separately)? 
Once the notice expires, the LL has to apply to court, wait for a hearing date, wait for the possession order date, apply for bailiffs and wait for bailiffs to attend. All in, that could be 2-8 months, so you're likely beyond the school year anyway. It may cost you some money for the court and bailiff fees which you're liable to reimburse, but that might work out better for you. 

You may also be able to argue the gas safety point at the court hearing and buy even more time, but doesn't seem crucial. 

you say some money....   The court fees are £355 minimum last time I checked, plus more if they claim other expenses for attending etc.   Bailifs even more.   If these cant be paid in full quickly if awarded you will have a CCJ, which will ruin your renting future and credit.

On the flip side, the S21 is invalid.......

Landlords: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Brilliant!  Love it!

LegallyLandlord

In a point of detail, landlords can rectify mistakes with the paperwork (there’s been a case in the court of appeal). The important thing is for the documents to have been provided before the s21 notice is served. 

The landlord legally needs to have a valid gas safety certificate now and should do the work as a matter of urgency. But your s21 notice is valid. 

Here’s an explanation of s21 notices https://theindependentlandlord.com/resources/property-investors-glossary/section-21-notice/