Missing NHS pension

DAG27

Hi
Wondering if anyone else worked for the NHS in the 80s and on trying to trace my pension, which I'm certain I paid in to, have been told that the pension depended on the departments concerned keeping records at the time. Which apparently they didn't, so tough!
Is there any other way I can prove this? Surely they can't just say "oh sorry we lost your records"!

GrubbyGirl_2

I was employed in the NHS from1978 to 2020 and worked for 11 different organisations (4 during the 70s and 80s) and my record was correct.  Although pension money was taken from your local payroll the overall pension management was done centrally.  Depending on where you worked you may not have been auto enrolled as there wasn't a requirement to do so in the 80s. Did you continue to work in the NHS and are your other pensions recorded?

I appreciate that the organisation you worked for may no longer exist but if you can track the successor organisations it might be worth doing a subject access request to see what information they hold, if any.  Also do a subject access request to NHSBSA and see what they hold.  I did this and they had paperwork going right back to when I started in the NHS so if they have nothing for that period the chances are you weren't paying pension.  You'll be amazed as to how much info they hold on you, including hand written records, when I did it they had to use parcel post to send it to me.

Another thing that might be worth trying is to see if you were contracted out during that period.  If you were paying into the NHS pension you would have been contracted out.  The only way you'll find out is by contacting HMRC which won't be easy at the moment.  NHSBSA is not the greatest organisation to deal with unfortunately.  Good luck.

Silvertabby

Your actual dates of membership are crucial here.

For example, if you left before 1April 1988 with less than 5 years pensionable service, then you never had and never will have actual pension rights.  Can you remember being offered/paid a sum of money after you left, which you may not have realised was a refund of your pension contributions?

DAG27

Hi, thanks for your comments. 
Silvertabby, can you say why I would have no actual pension rights?
I definitely didn't have a lump sum on leaving.
Grubbygirl_2 many thanks, I will start off with the paths you have suggested.
It would be interesting to know if any others have succeeded after being told their records were lost.

Silvertabby

Before 1 April 1988 the NHS (and most other  pensions schemes) were subject to a vesting period of 5 years.  ie, you had to accrue at least 5 years pensionable service in order to qualify for actual pension rights.  Less than that and you would only be eligible for a refund of your own contributions or, subject to scheme rules, a transfer to another pension scheme.

Further to my previous answer, if you left before 1 April 1988 with less than 5 years service AND were under 26, then it is possible that your contributions would have been refunded automatically, as that would have been your only option.

Flugelhorn

DAG27 said:

Is there any other way I can prove this? Surely they can't just say "oh sorry we lost your records"!

I did have a problem in 2001 - they missed out a year on my contributions, someone had said I left a job in Jan 2001 instead of Jan 2002. It was a bit of "prove it" from them and in the end I found one payslip - the P45 when I left in Jan 2002 and the P60 from April 2001 - they then amended the records.

xylophone

Try SAR to HMRC for all years concerned.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78331478/#Comment_78331478

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6267734/is-there-a-really-detailed-online-method-to-check-nics/p3

Marcon

Silvertabby said:

Before 1 April 1988 the NHS (and most other  pensions schemes) were subject to a vesting period of 5 years.  ie, you had to accrue at least 5 years pensionable service in order to qualify for actual pension rights.  Less than that and you would only be eligible for a refund of your own contributions or, subject to scheme rules, a transfer to another pension scheme.

Further to my previous answer, if you left before 1 April 1988 with less than 5 years service AND were under 26, then it is possible that your contributions would have been refunded automatically, as that would have been your only option.

...and the likelihood is that they were included in your final pay packet and thus may have passed without really noticing, given that a final payment of salary is often not the usual 'exactly one month' and is frequently adjusted for holiday owed, repaying the balance on a season ticket loan or similar. The amount refunded would have been your personal contributions minus a deduction to make good the tax relief and reduced NI you paid during your period of pension scheme membership.

If you can't remember your dates of employment (i.e. did you have a minimum of 5 years of membership and did you leave after   5 April 1988?

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

I was employed in the NHS from1978 to 2020 and worked for 11 different organisations (4 during the 70s and 80s) and my record was correct.  Although pension money was taken from your local payroll the overall pension management was done centrally.  Depending on where you worked you may not have been auto enrolled as there wasn't a requirement to do so in the 80s. Did you continue to work in the NHS and are your other pensions recorded?

Worth bearing in mind that auto enrolment didn't exist, but compulsory membership of employer pension schemes was around until abolished 6 April 1988, so in practice anyone working in the public sector who met the eligibility criteria would have been enrolled and couldn't opt out until that date.

GrubbyGirl_2

Marcon said:

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

I was employed in the NHS from1978 to 2020 and worked for 11 different organisations (4 during the 70s and 80s) and my record was correct.  Although pension money was taken from your local payroll the overall pension management was done centrally.  Depending on where you worked you may not have been auto enrolled as there wasn't a requirement to do so in the 80s. Did you continue to work in the NHS and are your other pensions recorded?

Worth bearing in mind that auto enrolment didn't exist, but compulsory membership of employer pension schemes was around until abolished 6 April 1988, so in practice anyone working in the public sector who met the eligibility criteria would have been enrolled and couldn't opt out until that date.

I didn't know that.  I have to admit I was blissfully ignorant about things like pensions when I was 18 and started in the NHS.  At that age I was interested in having money in my purse to enjoy myself and that's all.  I couldn't have told you in my first 8 years of working as to whether I was in the pension scheme or not.  Indeed it wasn't until I applied for a mortgage when I was 26 that the bank asked me if I was in the pension scheme as they were reassured I would have a death in service payment.  To be honest I was so glad I was ignorant as like many young people today I might have rather had the money in my pocket instead.  Now I am grateful for having paid for 42 years into a final salary pension especially as I had significant promotions over the years

Grandmama

At the age.of 38 in 1985 as the last of the RGN course with the NHS and joined the superannuation scheme , I qualified in June 1988. Having spent those three and a half years as a student  then only one year as a qualified nurse I went to work outside of the NHS. I forgot all.about the superannuation.until I reached the age of 60 which was my retirement age. I found a paper in my folders about the NHS pension. This was in 2006. I sent it off and to my surprise I received a £2,500 lump sum and a pension which has risen over the years to £110 a month. 
Not bad for four and a half years paying in!

Silvertabby

Grandmama said:

At the age.of 38 in 1985 as the last of the RGN course with the NHS and joined the superannuation scheme , I qualified in June 1988. Having spent those three and a half years as a student  then only one year as a qualified nurse I went to work outside of the NHS. I forgot all.about the superannuation.until I reached the age of 60 which was my retirement age. I found a paper in my folders about the NHS pension. This was in 2006. I sent it off and to my surprise I received a £2,500 lump sum and a pension which has risen over the years to £110 a month. 
Not bad for four and a half years paying in!

That's because you left after April 1988, and so only needed a 2 year vesting period.

In OP's case, it's still not clear when he/she left.