Parked in a supermarket car park after hours

Sour_dough

Hi everyone,

Seems like I can't get enough of these PCNs, but we're back again.

2 years ago I was looking for parking at around 11pm at night, and I found a supermarket car park. The supermarket was closed, and the car park was pretty much empty save for one or two other cars. So I parked there, went to one of the shops along the road, and returned after about an hour to find a windscreen PCN. It turned out the supermarket car park was a pay and display.

I wasn't sure what to do at the time, and everyone just told me to ignore it, but now I've received a court claim letter. Do I have any reasonable grounds to fight this on, or is it a lost cause?

I did complete the acknowledgment of service, and the new defence deadline is the end of this week. I'm probably just disheartened from losing my recent residential case, but I'm not really sure what basis I have for a defence.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Kind regards,
Sour_dough

Umkomaas

I wasn't sure what to do at the time, and everyone just told me to ignore it, but now I've received a court claim letter.

From who, on behalf of who?

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Who is the Claimant?

Fruitcake

The advice to ignore a parking charge notice has not been given here since the law changed in 2012. You were given old, bad, out of date advice.

As well as answering the questions above, contact the council planning department to see what the planning consent said about the site when planning approval was granted. Often there is a clause saying it is only granted on condition that the site can be used by motorists to use other local shops and businesses.

Also get photos of the site and signage, and send an SAR to the DPO of the PPC. You will need to include non-photo proof of ID with the request.
Did the keeper receive a NTK, and if so, was it PoFA compliant?

Sour_dough

The claimant is SIP Parking Limited.
I can't see any mention of a solicitor.

The issue date on the County Court Claim Form is 23/03/2023
I submitted my acknowledgement of service on 05/04/2023

There were definitely letters before this, so one of them was probably a NTK, but I don't have any of them now.

B789

Sour_dough said:

The claimant is SIP Parking Limited.
I can't see any mention of a solicitor.

The issue date on the County Court Claim Form is 23/03/2023
I submitted my acknowledgement of service on 05/04/2023

There were definitely letters before this, so one of them was probably a NTK, but I don't have any of them now.

@KeithP will be along to confirm deadlines for submitting your Defence. Please refer to the Template Defence thread near the top of this forum for compiling your Defence.

SAR SIP Parking using this template:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v29cyfyuglg1ban/subject_access_request3.pdf?dl=0

You will receive a copy of the NtK/PCN amongst anything they hold that contains data about you.

The Newbies/FAQ thread, also near the top of the forum should be used as a reference for everything that you are now involved in. It should not just be speed-read and then forgotten.

Fruitcake

Sending an SAR will (should) get you a copy of the NTK. It will only be of use if the keeper was not the driver, and it is not PoFA complaint, but you won't know the latter until you see it.

KeithP

Sour_dough said:

The issue date on the County Court Claim Form is 23/03/2023
I submitted my acknowledgement of service on 05/04/2023

With a Claim Issue Date of 23rd March, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 25th April 2023 to file your Defence.

That's a whole week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Sour_dough

I've drafted a defence using the template provided. My points are below:

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle.

3. The defendant arrived at the supermarket car park late at night after the supermarket had closed. The car park was unlit. The defendant parked amongst the other cars parked in the car park and walked to a nearby shop before returning. During this time at 23:24 a PCN was issued.

3.1. Signage was not visible at night when the defendant drove into the unlit car park. The defendant had to use their mobile phone light to see the ground in front of them while they walked.

3.2. Signage is on the passenger side upon entry and does not engage drivers.

3.3. Signage is at right angles to the car on entry, so it would be unsafe for the driver to turn their head 90 degrees to read a sign. Regardless, at night time the signage is not visible anyway. 

3.4. Signage that is visible when leaving the car park on foot only mentions not parking on double yellow lines, which is irrelevant here.

Is this robust enough to be used alongside the rest of the template in court?

Fruitcake

That reads like a witness statement and blabs about the driver leaving site. That's a bad idea unless you confirmed with the local council that planning permission for the site was granted on condition that motorists could park and use other local facilities, which you haven't mentioned.

Adjust 3.4 to remove "leaving site".

The rest is too long. The main points are that it was dark and there were no illuminated signs visible at the material time that were capable of forming a contract.

Perhaps the defendant returned in daylight (you should if you haven't already). You can then say whether signs were or were not prominent and in the driver's line of site bringing the Ts and Cs to the driver's notice. Look up and include Lord Denning's "red hand rule".

Perhaps there is a route the driver took from the entrance to where they parked such that no signs are present. You could return with a dash cam or a passenger who could take video/stills of the route. You should take photos of the site and signage anyway as they are now, and see if there are any historic Google Streetview images from two years ago that will help. Note that this is to gather information for your defence. The photo/video evidence does not go with the defence.

In future, remember that all land in the UK belongs to someone. If someone needs to to stop, they should do it on a public road, not private property.

Coupon-mad

As SIP have filed this claim themselves (no solicitor) please show us their Particulars of Claim (your VRM redacted).