PIP PA4 assessors report

mrsdoyle

Hi,I received the PA4 report and I havent scored points where I think I should;
1.Needs an appliance or aid to speak or hear,0 points.I expected 2 as I wear a hearing aid
2.Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress/undress,0 points.I expected 2 as I use a sock and button puller on and have difficulties with buttons due to neuropathy of fingers (numbness)
3.Needs an appliance to manage medication or monitor a health condition,0 points.I expected 1 as I need a dated (I cant remember what they are called) box to keep my numerous medications in.I also monitor my blood pressure with my own device.

In all the guides on the internet on pip points, I should have scored these points. Someone on a forum said I could phone the DWP and speak to the decision maker (or client manager) How much time do I have to do this? and if I cant do this,How risky would a mandatory reconsideration be for these or could I lose everything ? many thanks.

HillStreetBlues

mrsdoyle said:

Hi,I received the PA4 report and I havent scored points where I think I should;
1.Needs an appliance or aid to speak or hear,0 points.I expected 2 as I wear a hearing aid
2.Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress/undress,0 points.I expected 2 as I use a sock and button puller on and have difficulties with buttons due to neuropathy of fingers (numbness)
3.Needs an appliance to manage medication or monitor a health condition,0 points.I expected 1 as I need a dated (I cant remember what they are called) box to keep my numerous medications in.I also monitor my blood pressure with my own device.

In all the guides on the internet on pip points, I should have scored these points. Someone on a forum said I could phone the DWP and speak to the decision maker (or client manager) How much time do I have to do this? and if I cant do this,How risky would a mandatory reconsideration be for these or could I lose everything ? many thanks.

It's a Dosette box

You do need a MR as the decision has been made so pointless trying to contact the DM.

You are on the right track for a MR  as you are breaking down where points have been missed.
Personally I don't think it's risky going to MR, I think the percentage of losing points are very low (if at all) on a MR

Spoonie_Turtle

Did you score any other points?  Not asking which descriptors, just whether you did and if so, how many?

mrsdoyle

I did,8,but was sure I would get 12!

Robbie64

Did you mention using a hearing aid and a sock and button puller on your application (or review, if appropriate) form? If you did, does the assessor address why he or she has given no points? The use of a dosette box only scores 1 point and won't help you cross the 12 point threshold unless you score points for needing assistance to be able to get in or out of a bath or shower (which scores 3 points). I've just noticed you got 8 points so this unique set of circumstances doesn't apply.

It's possible the assessor has overlooked scoring points for these two / three activities but then the Case Manager at the DWP should have picked them up before a decision was made.

mrsdoyle

I did,sock and button aids,assessed as "reports no back or spinal pain preventing bending" dosette box aid assessed as "unlikely as shows good cognition so can manage medication unaided" Hearing aid assessed as "only one aid in one ear and had no difficulties hearing me"  It was a phone assessment and the final DWP decision has yet to be made.

Bluebird09

The one hearing aid I don't think will score you any points. I know people who are severely deaf in both ears and wear two aids but still only score only 2 points. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Unfortunately it is quite a high threshold for what is absolute need and not being able to do the activity to an acceptable standard.  This is what the guide for the Scottish assessors says (it's basically the same as PIP just is more explicit about what counts and gives examples, whereas the PIP guide does not):

One ear with no restrictions may be considered sufficient for the purpose daily living component activity 7 to be able to hear
• If an individual uses a hearing aid/s or cochlear implant/s, the aid should be relied upon to be able to hear
• without using the hearing aid or cochlear implant, the individual would not be able to hear. A hearing aid or cochlear implant should only be regarded as an aid if it’s necessary for an individual to hear to an acceptable standard.
https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/asset-storage/production/downloads/09.-Daily-living-component-activity-7-for-Adult-Disability-Payment-_-Communicating-verbally.pdf

So, if you have hearing loss in one ear* then it could be a difficult argument that you absolutely need the aid to be able to hear to an acceptable standard.  It is very tricky though because obviously without it you'd struggle more and get fatigued which starts going into 'not to an acceptable standard' territory.  I guess it depends on just how difficult things are for you if you don't wear it, whether it's worth fighting or not.
*There was one area of England that routinely only prescribed one aid despite people having bilateral hearing loss, if that is the case for you then obviously it will be much easier to prove you need to wear your single aid to be able to hear to a basic acceptable standard!

The dosette box again would only score points if you *need* it to be able to keep track of medication rather than it 'just' making life easier - e.g. would you forget what you've taken or whether you've taken your medication that day?  If not, then it won't count.  (Alarms would also count, if you need them to remind you.)

The sock aid, again it's whether it's because you need them or because they make life easier.  The button aid I'd have thought the simpler thing to fight because of neuropathy in your fingers.

So whether an MR is worth doing really depends on the impact of not wearing your hearing aid, or whether there are any other activities where you are certain you should have scored more highly.

HillStreetBlues

mrsdoyle said:

I did,sock and button aids,assessed as "reports no back or spinal pain preventing bending" .

The assessor/DM erred in regard of the law in only considering only back or spinal pain as criteria for this description,  
The assessor/DM should in law take account of my neuropathy of fingers that makes the need of both a sock and button puller on.
This scores two points.

mrsdoyle said:

dosette box aid assessed as "unlikely as shows good cognition so can manage medication unaided"

The assessor/DM is wrong with the wild conjecture. I do in fact use a Dosette box
This scores one point.

mrsdoyle said:

 Hearing aid assessed as "only one aid in one ear and had no difficulties hearing me"

The assessor/DM erred in regard of the law in only considering only one hearing aid as criteria for this description,  
The assessor/DM should in law take account of any device that improves their impaired physical function
(If you were using your hearing aid at the time of the phone call then "Of course I could hear the assessor as I was using my hearing aid that I need")
This scores two points.

Alice_Holt

Bluebird09 said:

The one hearing aid I don't think will score you any points. I know people who are severely deaf in both ears and wear two aids but still only score only 2 points. 

        I'm really puzzled as why you would think this.

         The number of hearing aids is irrelevant.  What matters is whether the claimant requires a hearing aid in order to hear to an acceptable standard,
       
  The OP will know if the hearing aid is worn through necessity or merely preference. If it has been prescribed by the NHS, how her hearing is without an aid, whether she can fully participate in social occasions to an acceptable standard without the aid, etc, etc

   Note that the descriptor is:
  Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to speak or hear. 2 points.

 The assessor has made a number of assumptions in declaring that "only one aid in one ear and had no difficulties hearing me", at a phone assessment. 
The OP may have had the phone volume on high, the assessor doesn't know how the OP would have coped without her hearing aid. The use of a telephone may be different for the OP than in social / outdoor situations where the sound is multi-directional.  

The assessor's comment of "only one aid" is clearly contrary to the guidance given in the PIP Assessment Guide, and would carry no weight with a tribunal panel. The number of hearing aids is irrelevant. The test is whether the claimant requires a hearing aid in order to hear to an acceptable standard,

mrsdoyle

I forgot to say,my phone handset has an adjustable amplifier so I had it set quite high as I do to hear properly with all calls (this is on my "good ear") I also use Alexa to give me reminders of when to take medications,thanks for your help.