Can I get buildings insurance without a completion certificate?

SavingDaemon

housebuyer143 said:

km1500 said:

Well...

Suppose your extension catches fire because of faulkty electrical work or a brick letting water in and shorting out the electrics

Suppose a tile blows off your extension roof and injures or kills someone

You may be able to think of other scenarios.

You can do all your own electrical work inside the house and if that catches fire they will still pay out, because they don't go asking for proof an electrician installed all your sockets when you claim, as that's completely unreasonable and almost no one will have this.

Given that you need a competent person to do the work and it will be listed publically and so easy to find if not, they could certainly raise it as an issue no? I've seen ts and cs in contracts which explains that you shouldn't attempt to do works you're not qualified to do as part of the policy document. 

user1977

SavingDaemon said:

user1977 said:

SavingDaemon said:

Rang up an insurer anonymously today to dig into the definition of 'incomplete building works' which appears in every policy I've seen to date and in their definitions a building without completion certificate has incomplete buildings works and so is uninsurable.

This is nonsense. "Incomplete building works" means something which is a building site. Not something merely lacking a bit of paper from the council from decades ago.

I have been unable to find a legal definition of 'incomplete building works' which is why I rang up the insurer. One insurer told me that not having legal consent ie a lack of building completion certificate was their definition of incomplete works another told me it was at the point that contractors left the site. 

The reason I'm checking is so that an insurer doesn't try to weasel out of paying in the instance that I go to make a future claim. I think this is reasonable, no?

But like I said, insurers cannot "weasel out" of a claim because of something they never bothered asking you about. There is no need for you to fret about stuff which you think they ought to have asked you about, and then try having a chat with a confused customer service assistant about something which isn't on their script.

And no, there is no special legal definition of "incomplete building works". The words have their normal English meaning. If somebody turned up at the house, looked at the extension, and asked "when are the builders going to finish that?", you'd have "incomplete building works".

SavingDaemon

Genuinely asking and I know I'm being a royal pain the !!!!!! but legally the work isn't complete without a completion certificate, no?

housebuyer143

SavingDaemon said:

Genuinely asking and I know I'm being a royal pain the !!!!!! but legally the work isn't complete without a completion certificate, no?

Is the insurers definition of 'building work' written in the t&C's? If you need to call them to define or they didn't outright ask if you have building reg sign off you will likely find it an unfair term and so again would be unable to weasel out of a claim.
Most people never get building reg sign off for new windows, boilers etc but the houses are insured. 

user1977

SavingDaemon said:

Genuinely asking and I know I'm being a royal pain the !!!!!! but legally the work isn't complete without a completion certificate, no?

No, it just means the council didn't come round to inspect the works after they were completed. That's all. There is no general legal concept of "incomplete works".

If you really think insurers care about this sort of thing, please go and look for an example of somebody having a claim refused because of it...

eddddy

To be honest - you're worrying about the wrong thing here. 

The more important question would be "Why wasn't a completion certificate obtained at the time?"

For example, was it because the extension was built by cowboy builders who didn't do things properly? e.g. Did they skimp on the foundations, or just guess what size joists to use? (Or was it just a naïve home owner who didn't think completion certificates mattered?)


As others have said, buildings insurance policies don't have exclusions for lack of building completion certificates, but they do have exclusions for damage resulting from poor workmanship and poor materials.

So if the extension starts to subside, and it's due to poor workmanship (e.g. the foundations are too shallow) that might be more of a reason for the insurance company to challenge a claim.

The best way to protect against that is to ask a surveyor to report on the extension.

silvercar

SavingDaemon said:

housebuyer143 said:

km1500 said:

Well...

Suppose your extension catches fire because of faulkty electrical work or a brick letting water in and shorting out the electrics

Suppose a tile blows off your extension roof and injures or kills someone

You may be able to think of other scenarios.

You can do all your own electrical work inside the house and if that catches fire they will still pay out, because they don't go asking for proof an electrician installed all your sockets when you claim, as that's completely unreasonable and almost no one will have this.

Given that you need a competent person to do the work and it will be listed publically and so easy to find if not, they could certainly raise it as an issue no? I've seen ts and cs in contracts which explains that you shouldn't attempt to do works you're not qualified to do as part of the policy document. 

Who knows what work a previous owner did themselves, or whether they were competent or not? 

Our house is old and completion certificates wouldn’t have existed at the time when the original owners added bits here and there. Does that mean my home is still a building site 90 years later?

what public list are you talking about?

housebuyer143

silvercar said:

SavingDaemon said:

housebuyer143 said:

km1500 said:

Well...

Suppose your extension catches fire because of faulkty electrical work or a brick letting water in and shorting out the electrics

Suppose a tile blows off your extension roof and injures or kills someone

You may be able to think of other scenarios.

You can do all your own electrical work inside the house and if that catches fire they will still pay out, because they don't go asking for proof an electrician installed all your sockets when you claim, as that's completely unreasonable and almost no one will have this.

Given that you need a competent person to do the work and it will be listed publically and so easy to find if not, they could certainly raise it as an issue no? I've seen ts and cs in contracts which explains that you shouldn't attempt to do works you're not qualified to do as part of the policy document. 

Who knows what work a previous owner did themselves, or whether they were competent or not? 

Our house is old and completion certificates wouldn’t have existed at the time when the original owners added bits here and there. Does that mean my home is still a building site 90 years later?

what public list are you talking about?

Agreed! No idea what the previous owner did but there is no list that details if an electrician wired your light switches or if you did it.  

TheJP

SavingDaemon said:

housebuyer143 said:

km1500 said:

Well...

Suppose your extension catches fire because of faulkty electrical work or a brick letting water in and shorting out the electrics

Suppose a tile blows off your extension roof and injures or kills someone

You may be able to think of other scenarios.

You can do all your own electrical work inside the house and if that catches fire they will still pay out, because they don't go asking for proof an electrician installed all your sockets when you claim, as that's completely unreasonable and almost no one will have this.

Given that you need a competent person to do the work and it will be listed publically and so easy to find if not, they could certainly raise it as an issue no? I've seen ts and cs in contracts which explains that you shouldn't attempt to do works you're not qualified to do as part of the policy document. 

I've changed a light switch in my house, I'm not qualified. By your definition my insurance is invalid.

An electrician installed a new light fitting, I'm 100% sure that works is not listed publicly. Where is this public listings you talk about?

SavingDaemon

silvercar said:

SavingDaemon said:

housebuyer143 said:

km1500 said:

Well...

Suppose your extension catches fire because of faulkty electrical work or a brick letting water in and shorting out the electrics

Suppose a tile blows off your extension roof and injures or kills someone

You may be able to think of other scenarios.

You can do all your own electrical work inside the house and if that catches fire they will still pay out, because they don't go asking for proof an electrician installed all your sockets when you claim, as that's completely unreasonable and almost no one will have this.

Given that you need a competent person to do the work and it will be listed publically and so easy to find if not, they could certainly raise it as an issue no? I've seen ts and cs in contracts which explains that you shouldn't attempt to do works you're not qualified to do as part of the policy document. 

Who knows what work a previous owner did themselves, or whether they were competent or not? 

Our house is old and completion certificates wouldn’t have existed at the time when the original owners added bits here and there. Does that mean my home is still a building site 90 years later?

what public list are you talking about?

The building control website for your council which lists publically whether you have planning permission and building certificates for any extensions and if you have had gas, electrics or windows fitted by a competent person.