NHS PENSION SCHEME

Naomi54

NHS PENSION SCHEME QUESTIONS
1.       I am currently considering retirement options. I am on NHS Agenda for Change terms and have pensionable service in both the 1995 scheme (since 2002 with a normal pension age of 60 y.o.) and service in the 2015 scheme with a NPA of 67 .yo.. My intention is to retire 13 months after I reach the band maximum at the age of 58. I would not claim either of my pensions at this time. I would claim my 1995 benefits at age 60 (without actuarial reduction ) and my 2015 benefits at age 66 with actuarial reduction. I have a few questions I am seeking answers to and would appreciate any help that can be offered. It would be helpful if you could provide a link to “official sources” that confirm any advice given. I believe the answers to the following questions are YES but would welcome any contrary advice.
 
a.       Once I leave NHS employment at age 58 (but defer taking my pension) are my 1995 pension benefits uprated in accordance with treasury orders at CPI until age 60 when I take my 1995 pension benefits. Does the first “uprating / revaluation take place in the April following the date I leave NHS employment. (I realise the first uprating may be pro rata depending on the actual date I leave NHS employment)?
 
b.       Under the 2015 scheme are deferred benefits uprated annually ( the first uprating being in April after  I leave NHS employment) at CPI + 1.5% between the date I leave NHS employment (at age 58) until the time I draw them at age 66 and then subsequently at CPI in accordance with Treasury Orders ?
 
c.       In the scenario I have described in the first paragraph (1)  is it the case that at the time I draw my 2015 pension that it is uprated as described above (b) BEFORE any actuarial reduction is applied or is the uplift calculation done AFTER the actuarial reduction?
 
2.       I am aware of the McCloud judgement and will consider my options in the light of this. Finally, I have seen a calculator provided by NHS Scotland which models the options under the Mc Cloud judgement (Search for NHS Scotland  McCloud Modeller pensions) but have not found an equivalent NHS England calculator – Does one exist?. 
3.       Can anyone confirm whether the NHS 1995 / 2015 pension schemes in Scotland are directly comparable to the NHS England 1995 and 2015 schemes? Is there any reason why the Scottish calculator could not be used for NHS England members?

Flugelhorn

b. - not sure that it is CPI + 1.5% if you defer, I think it is just CPI

Naomi54

Many thanks Flugelhorn.
I don't suppose you know the answer to C ?

Flugelhorn

Naomi54 said:

Many thanks Flugelhorn.
I don't suppose you know the answer to C ?

TBH I don't know as I only have 1995 pension and deferred but didn't have any actuarial reduction  - I know some backdated uprating of it  happened after I took my pension and they sent me some more money as part of my lump sum and increased the pension (over a year later) 

I suspect it all comes down to dates - the uprating is attached to specific dates and everything is calculated at the point of retirement.

Naomi54

Thanks for the follow-up.
My guess is that given your pension and lump sum was increased subsequent to retiring that it was a case of a late implemented pay deal with an effective date prior to your retirement.

Flugelhorn

Naomi54 said:

Thanks for the follow-up.
My guess is that given your pension and lump sum was increased subsequent to retiring that it was a case of a late implemented pay deal with an effective date prior to your retirement.

It wasn't that actually - there were 2 elements, one was the some revaluation (second bite) and the other was the fact that some of mine was  practitioners pay which doesn't get updated for at least a year on the system (as that part is PAY and not SALARY). I was a GP with multiple employers   and we hadn't had a pay rise for several years. 

saucer

Naomi54 said:

NHS PENSION SCHEME QUESTIONS
1.       I am currently considering retirement options. I am on NHS Agenda for Change terms and have pensionable service in both the 1995 scheme (since 2002 with a normal pension age of 60 y.o.) and service in the 2015 scheme with a NPA of 67 .yo.. My intention is to retire 13 months after I reach the band maximum at the age of 58. I would not claim either of my pensions at this time. I would claim my 1995 benefits at age 60 (without actuarial reduction ) and my 2015 benefits at age 66 with actuarial reduction. I have a few questions I am seeking answers to and would appreciate any help that can be offered. It would be helpful if you could provide a link to “official sources” that confirm any advice given. I believe the answers to the following questions are YES but would welcome any contrary advice.
 
a.       Once I leave NHS employment at age 58 (but defer taking my pension) are my 1995 pension benefits uprated in accordance with treasury orders at CPI until age 60 when I take my 1995 pension benefits. Does the first “uprating / revaluation take place in the April following the date I leave NHS employment. (I realise the first uprating may be pro rata depending on the actual date I leave NHS employment)?
 
b.       Under the 2015 scheme are deferred benefits uprated annually ( the first uprating being in April after  I leave NHS employment) at CPI + 1.5% between the date I leave NHS employment (at age 58) until the time I draw them at age 66 and then subsequently at CPI in accordance with Treasury Orders ?
 
c.       In the scenario I have described in the first paragraph (1)  is it the case that at the time I draw my 2015 pension that it is uprated as described above (b) BEFORE any actuarial reduction is applied or is the uplift calculation done AFTER the actuarial reduction?
 
2.       I am aware of the McCloud judgement and will consider my options in the light of this. Finally, I have seen a calculator provided by NHS Scotland which models the options under the Mc Cloud judgement (Search for NHS Scotland  McCloud Modeller pensions) but have not found an equivalent NHS England calculator – Does one exist?. 
3.       Can anyone confirm whether the NHS 1995 / 2015 pension schemes in Scotland are directly comparable to the NHS England 1995 and 2015 schemes? Is there any reason why the Scottish calculator could not be used for NHS England members?

Flugelhorn is correct in saying that pension increase is CPI only once deferred. Good outline here https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pensions/additional-pensions-advice/inflationary-increases-to-your-nhs-pension
Regarding pro rata adjustment corresponding to the date you retire, this is very specifically outlined in tables that I can’t find, but it is as you would expect based on the point in the year that you deferred your pension. That is e.g. the only people who will get have received the full 10.1 CPI increase to the pension in April 2023, based on CPI sept 2022, will be those who retired before early April 2022. 
As for point ‘c’, I’m not sure I understand, but what difference does it make if a reduction happens before or after the uplift. Surely any adjustment will be proportional?

flyguy66

saucer said:

Naomi54 said:

NHS PENSION SCHEME QUESTIONS
1.       I am currently considering retirement options. I am on NHS Agenda for Change terms and have pensionable service in both the 1995 scheme (since 2002 with a normal pension age of 60 y.o.) and service in the 2015 scheme with a NPA of 67 .yo.. My intention is to retire 13 months after I reach the band maximum at the age of 58. I would not claim either of my pensions at this time. I would claim my 1995 benefits at age 60 (without actuarial reduction ) and my 2015 benefits at age 66 with actuarial reduction. I have a few questions I am seeking answers to and would appreciate any help that can be offered. It would be helpful if you could provide a link to “official sources” that confirm any advice given. I believe the answers to the following questions are YES but would welcome any contrary advice.
 

 
c.       In the scenario I have described in the first paragraph (1)  is it the case that at the time I draw my 2015 pension that it is uprated as described above (b) BEFORE any actuarial reduction is applied or is the uplift calculation done AFTER the actuarial reduction?
 
2.       I am aware of the McCloud judgement and will consider my options in the light of this. Finally, I have seen a calculator provided by NHS Scotland which models the options under the Mc Cloud judgement (Search for NHS Scotland  McCloud Modeller pensions) but have not found an equivalent NHS England calculator – Does one exist?. 

3.       Can anyone confirm whether the NHS 1995 / 2015 pension schemes in Scotland are directly comparable to the NHS England 1995 and 2015 schemes? Is there any reason why the Scottish calculator could not be used for NHS England members?

 
As for point ‘c’, I’m not sure I understand, but what difference does it make if a reduction happens before or after the uplift. Surely any adjustment will be proportional?
I think I understand the reason for the OP question, e.g. 2.5% uplift on actuarial reduced amount is in cash terms less than 2.5% on the unreduced amount. Multiplied over time would this be an difference worth factoring into calculations. Is that correct interpretation?

Please see above

flyguy66

Naomi54 said:

NHS PENSION SCHEME QUESTIONS

 
2.       I am aware of the McCloud judgement and will consider my options in the light of this. Finally, I have seen a calculator provided by NHS Scotland which models the options under the Mc Cloud judgement (Search for NHS Scotland  McCloud Modeller pensions) but have not found an equivalent NHS England calculator – Does one exist?. 
Did you find one? One that also modelled actuarial reductions would be perfect
3.       Can anyone confirm whether the NHS 1995 / 2015 pension schemes in Scotland are directly comparable to the NHS England 1995 and 2015 schemes? Is there any reason why the Scottish calculator could not be used for NHS England members?

I am asking similar questions about the calculator and have largely ignored this and keeping my fingers crossed there are options that work in my favour that flow from the remedy