Smart Heating Install gone wrong..advice needed

FFHillbilly

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

if they supplied the Tado stat then they should have to get a replacement and refit before you pay, simple as that.

They want to charge me for more hours to go and get another one and then come back to re-fit 

ask them specifically why they think you should have to pay for a faulty thermostat. 

is there an override button on the stat, and if you press that does the boiler fire? if so it may be worth going through the online chat with Tado yourself to try and figure out if it's a setup or user error, or if the Tado support say that the unit is faulty or incorrectly installed then you can go back to the installer with that info

Limeskies345

ThisIsWeird said:

Limeskies345 said:

Brand new boiler, ideal Atlantic 
it’s compatible so shouldn’t have any problems 

Did the same company also install the boiler?

Ahh thanks for your advice!! 

Yes I was given a fixed price for this. No another company installed the boiler. 

Yes I do have legal protection, I’ll give them a call. 

I honestly thought it was going to be a quick job, hoping for no issues. 

Limeskies345

FFHillbilly said:

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

if they supplied the Tado stat then they should have to get a replacement and refit before you pay, simple as that.

They want to charge me for more hours to go and get another one and then come back to re-fit 

ask them specifically why they think you should have to pay for a faulty thermostat. 

is there an override button on the stat, and if you press that does the boiler fire? if so it may be worth going through the online chat with Tado yourself to try and figure out if it's a setup or user error, or if the Tado support say that the unit is faulty or incorrectly installed then you can go back to the installer with that info

They keep saying it’s due to the hours they are spending, and they have an hourly rate. This was never mentioned when the job was quoted. 

Yes the override button did fire up the boiler. I made them put my old thermostat back as they were going to leave me with no heating. They took the Tado kit with them 

ThisIsWeird

Limeskies345 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Limeskies345 said:

Brand new boiler, ideal Atlantic 
it’s compatible so shouldn’t have any problems 

Did the same company also install the boiler?

Ahh thanks for your advice!! 

Yes I was given a fixed price for this. No another company installed the boiler. 

Yes I do have legal protection, I’ll give them a call. 

I honestly thought it was going to be a quick job, hoping for no issues. 

Fixed price for the job. Which they now wish to increase through no fault of yours or your house. Hmm.

These usually are a very straight forward job, one that's DIYable for a lot of folk. I would suggest it's not their 'fault' it isn't working, but that's irrelevant - they still need to sort it, as it's their responsibility, and for the quoted sum. Confirm with your LP.

Have you paid them anything yet? If not, I'd ask Ideal for their recommendations for the most energy efficient controllers (and not just their own!). BUFF recommends Wiser, and it could be a better bet than the Tado - every % increase in efficiency should be looked at. 

I don't know if that model of Ideal boiler has 'Opentherm' or an equivalent control system, but - if it does - it would be remiss to not take advantage of this.

Anyhoo, see what your LP says, and presumably it'll be in agreement.* Also worth finding out whether a Wiser (or Ideal's own controls) are better, and - if they likely are - to take advantage of the situation with the non-functioning Tado and call it quits with these guys. New controls, new installer (any sparky should do this, usually within an hour - it doesn't need a heating engineer.)

* You may be expected to allow the current installers an opportunity to put things right for the original quote. But, once you make it clear that you will not be paying them a penny more for this, they may be happy to cancel the whole job/contract instead. I'd suggest that would be a good option. 

FFHillbilly

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

if they supplied the Tado stat then they should have to get a replacement and refit before you pay, simple as that.

They want to charge me for more hours to go and get another one and then come back to re-fit 

ask them specifically why they think you should have to pay for a faulty thermostat. 

is there an override button on the stat, and if you press that does the boiler fire? if so it may be worth going through the online chat with Tado yourself to try and figure out if it's a setup or user error, or if the Tado support say that the unit is faulty or incorrectly installed then you can go back to the installer with that info

They keep saying it’s due to the hours they are spending, and they have an hourly rate. This was never mentioned when the job was quoted. 

Yes the override button did fire up the boiler. I made them put my old thermostat back as they were going to leave me with no heating. They took the Tado kit with them 

I'd just tell them you're not paying as they haven't done the job. It's bizarre how they chose to supply and install a type of stat, but then can't be bothered to figure out why it's not working, and still want to charge you

Doozergirl

FFHillbilly said:

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

Limeskies345 said:

FFHillbilly said:

if they supplied the Tado stat then they should have to get a replacement and refit before you pay, simple as that.

They want to charge me for more hours to go and get another one and then come back to re-fit 

ask them specifically why they think you should have to pay for a faulty thermostat. 

is there an override button on the stat, and if you press that does the boiler fire? if so it may be worth going through the online chat with Tado yourself to try and figure out if it's a setup or user error, or if the Tado support say that the unit is faulty or incorrectly installed then you can go back to the installer with that info

They keep saying it’s due to the hours they are spending, and they have an hourly rate. This was never mentioned when the job was quoted. 

Yes the override button did fire up the boiler. I made them put my old thermostat back as they were going to leave me with no heating. They took the Tado kit with them 

I'd just tell them you're not paying as they haven't done the job. It's bizarre how they chose to supply and install a type of stat, but then can't be bothered to figure out why it's not working, and still want to charge you

I agree.   They haven't done the job and you don't have a new thermostat.  I'd be happy to tell them that.  You'll pay the agreed price if and when you have what you asked for.  

They don't have your money and it's up to them to chase you. 

We have Tado and I don't think they're the easiest to install and the guy that fitted ours complained about it.  We have one upstairs and one downstairs, thankfully we don't really need any heating upstairs because I have no idea what the upstairs one does.

  

ThisIsWeird

Limes, it would appear you have two choices. One is to continue with the Tado install with this company, provided they agree to complete the job for the original quote. No argument on that.

The other is to take the opportunity to consider a better alternative such as BUFF's suggestion of the Wiser, or Ideal's own model, provided it uses an improved control interface (such as Opentherm) that will make that boiler work more efficiently. There should be no obvious difference in the actual use for the user - you'll set the desired temps for the required times as before - but it simply gets the boiler to operate in a more controlled fashion, so it remains as efficient as possible for as long as possible*. I have to say, I would go for the most energy-efficient interface type of I were in your shoes. I mean, why wouldn't you?!

I'd ask Ideal which 3rd party controls match their boiler's interface, and also about their own controls, and then sit down and compare them. Ask on here for guidance if needed.

Should you decide to not go Tado, but the installer is now insisting you need to let them finish the job (even at no extra cost), then I believe you can legitimately cancel your contract with them on the basis of a loss of trust or confidence in them. You can follow this up with an email, outlining why;

1) installer arrived 1.5 hours late.
2) couldn't get system to work, and then declared they'd run out of time to contact Tado.
3) company demanding additional fee over the agreed quote to fit a replacement.
4) company boss 'argued' with you over this issue.

I'd be happy to bet a sizeable sum that this would be the last you'll hear from them.

*I understand the essential difference in control is that 'standard' Smart stats (Tado, Hive, etc) will turn the boiler on when the room is cold, and off when the temp has been reached; it's essentially on/off. Opentherm (and other advanced systems) will instead turn the boiler's output down (like a gas hob being turned down) as the room temp is being reached, so it arrives at the desired room temp gently, doesn't overshoot, and the boiler is kept on a kind of tickover to meet demand, rather than more on and offs. Less wear on the boiler, and more efficiency as the boiler output is kept as low as possibly whilst still meeting demand.

BUFF

ThisIsWeird said:

Should you decide to not go Tado, but the installer is now insisting you need to let them finish the job (even at no extra cost), then I believe you can legitimately cancel your contract with them on the basis of a loss of trust or confidence in them. You can follow this up with an email, outlining why;

1) installer arrived 1.5 hours late.
2) couldn't get system to work, and then declared they'd run out of time to contact Tado.
3) company demanding additional fee over the agreed quote to fit a replacement.
4) company boss 'argued' with you over this issue.

I'd be happy to bet a sizeable sum that this would be the last you'll hear from them.

*I understand the essential difference in control is that 'standard' Smart stats (Tado, Hive, etc) will turn the boiler on when the room is cold, and off when the temp has been reached; it's essentially on/off. Opentherm (and other advanced systems) will instead turn the boiler's output down (like a gas hob being turned down) as the room temp is being reached, so it arrives at the desired room temp gently, doesn't overshoot, and the boiler is kept on a kind of tickover to meet demand, rather than more on and offs. Less wear on the boiler, and more efficiency as the boiler output is kept as low as possibly whilst still meeting demand.

5) they took the Tado away (which no doubt they will try to return to their supplier) so you have ultimately received nothing

*The standard wired Tado supports OpenTherm as does their wireless receiver model for the EU.
For some reason (they say because their stats said that virtually nobody used it here & UK installers were confused by it) they removed that facility from the current wireless receiver model for the UK. There has been some pushback to the extent that they now offer that you can buy the EU wireless receiver supporting OpenTherm from Tado UK's direct professional shop.

mi-key

If you haven't paid them anything yet, then don't. You bought a service from them, which they haven't provided ( or if you paid by credit card, then you can reverse the charge ).

It is not your fault they either got a faulty product, or didn't know how to install it properly. It's not your responsobility if the job takes them longer than they thought it would, or is more work when they have quoted you a fixed price. Their job is to do the agreed work and leave you with a working thermostat.

Just stick to your guns and tell them you are happy to pay the agreed price once you have a fully working installed unit, and if they aren't prepared to do this, you will pay them nothing and get someone else to do it.

They may 'want' to charge you extra, but legally they don't have a leg to stand on

 

Postik

Lol, they quoted you for supply and installation, it's their problem if it doesn't work.  They should take it up with Tado if they are so concerned.  If you supplied the Tado then it's fair enough, but you didn't, they did.

The fact that the boss was arguing with you on the phone would be enough for me to ignore them completely and find someone else.  I'm not sure of the legality of that since you've already commissioned the work and they've already purchased the parts - I suspect legally you have to give them the opportunity to sort the problem out, but me personally, I would ignore them and move on.