Campaign for Honest Council Tax Assessments – Lothian, Scotland - This Post is now closed

GlennCTax

This Council Tax Manager (see previous posts) went outside our local area to find a Semi Detached Cottage to compare against our small Detached Cottage.  There was no need to go out 4 miles as there was a similar Detached Cottage along the road.

He went 4 miles out from our Town to find his comparison Cottage in a Conservation Village.

This Semi Detached Cottage he used was far more expensive than the similar Detached Cottage along the road.

We asked why he did not simply used the Detached Cottage just along the road, as it was in the local area, it was also similar in size, it was a Tone Date Sale and it was 0.6 miles away!

The reply we received was that the Council Tax Manager thought the sales of the local Cottage along the road appeared collusive.

We purchased the details of the local Cottage from Register of Sasines and found the sales of this local Cottage did not appear collusive.  This Evidence was clear for the layman to see, how could this 40 year experienced staff member possibly think the sales looked collusive!!

The assessors had also used  the wrong sales date of this local Cottage which gave the impression that the sales information did not look credible. 

After we investigated his comparison Cottage from the Conservation village, we also discovered he had used the wrong Banding of this property!!

This information was still wrong after we had previously complained of receiving misleading information from the previous assessor!!  We informed the assessors taking over our Case, that we needed clear information.  Our evidence shows that the assessors have been using misleading evidence for so long that it appears to be endemic within the organisation.

The Divisional Valuer (RICS member) who was also assigned to our Case and attended this house meeting, attempted to reassure us of this Council Tax Manager's integrity.  Our evidence shows this Divisional Valuer's word is certainly not credible, yet here he is attempting to reassure us!

After giving us so much misleading evidence/statements, this Council Tax Manager attempted to reassure us by informing us he was the most honest guy you could meet.  

Again we ask no one to take our word as our documented evidence and Taped House meeting speaks for itself.

I will give further updates in the coming days and weeks.

Let us know it you have had any similar experience.

GlennCTax

This Council Tax Manager (see above posts) also gave us misleading statements in relation to the way he assesses properties.  We had a neighbouring property that had a garage and an outbuilding. 

The Council Tax Manager stated that if we doing a comparison with our neighbouring property, we would need to remove the value of the garage, this would bring the value of the 2 properties closer together.  He went on to say that the value of the neighbours outbuilding would also have to be removed, again bringing the properties closer together.

This is another misleading statement from this Council Tax Manager.  He made this statement several times.  The properties are compared against the price they are sold for.  In fact, the Court Minutes have shown that in some Case, the property without the garage has been placed in the Band below.

This is the same Council Tax Manager that sent us 9 pages of Practice stating, that these Practice Notes are used by staff, then claimed they were old Practice Notes when he realised they favoured our Case.

This is the same Council Tax Manager that stated it would be "grossly unfair" to use comparison properties from outside the local area as it has a different level of value - then he went outside the local area to find more expensive properties!!!

This is the same Council Tax Manager that told me he was the most honest guy you could meet!!

I shall continue to give updates in the coming days and weeks.

If you have had a similar experience, we would like to hear from you.

GlennCTax

This Council Tax Manager (see above posts) also used misleading information by using the age of our Cottage as circa 1850.

1)  We have read in the assessors 1985 Instructions, that older cottages tend to have lower ceilings and very thick walls.  We have also read in the Valuation Appeal Minutes how the assessors have had comparison properties rejected by the Court as the age of the properties are not the same age, or are not of a comparable age.

Our Taped evidence shows this Council Tax Manager is aware the age of our Cottage is circa 1800, yet he claimed our Cottage was circa 1850 in his Court Productions. 

While at our house meeting, he accidentally dropped the Old House Card for our Cottage out of the file he was carrying under his arm.  This was the same file the Council Tax Manager thought, he had left in his car!   The file was not in his car, it was under his arm all this time!   I took a copy of the Old House Card and read it after our house meeting.

The Old House Card showed the build date of our Cottage was written as circa 1800, it was written again on the Old House Card, then circled and ticked.  It was obviously clear the build date was circa 1800, 

The Taped Recordings of our house meeting show that the Council Tax Manager was aware the build date of our Cottage was circa 1800, it was clear he was totally aware of the correct date, yet he later used a misleading date of circa 1850 in his Court Productions!

2)  Our Taped Recordings show that when we informed this Council Tax Manager that the previous assessor used the build date of our Cottage as pre 1914, he stated it was not possible to put circa 1800 on the computer!   Again this is a misleading statement. 

When we requested a list of Tone Date Properties under a Freedom of Information Request, we could see circa 1800 had been used time and time again.  It was clear the computer could accept circa 1800, again proving this Council Tax Manager was giving us more misleading information.

These are the same assessors that are claiming they have no paperwork to show how they measure/assess properties for Council Tax. 

We are at this moment awaiting information from other Appellants.

To date, we have found assessors have repeatedly used misleading information in every area of their assessments.  

I shall continue to give further updates in the coming days and weeks.

Had a similar experience?

GlennCTax

The first assessor we had, stated that our un-extended Cottage was at the bottom of Band D, then after it was extended and sold to us it then moved to the bottom of Band E.  However, we have since found this assessor have used misleading sizes for our un-extended Cottage and our extended Cottage.  He had also used misleading information in every area of his assessment.

When the Council Tax Manger and Divisional Valuer took over our Case, they did their own assessment.  Our taped evidence showed they also attempted to use a misleading size of our Cottage.  They also claimed that it was their view that the un-extended Cottage was at the top of Band D, not the bottom of Band D, as previously assessed!

When I asked them how they got it to the top of Band D, the Council Tax Manager stated it was based on his analysis.  When I asked him to show me his evidence for this, he said he did not have it with him.  This is the same Council Tax Manager that forgot our house file was under his arm and not in his car!

When I asked this Council Tax Manager if he could tell me which Comparison Cottages he used to place our un-extended Cottage towards the top of Band D, he said he could not remember.  When I asked if he could tell us even just one property, he still could not give us one property he used!

This is the same Council Tax Manager who had 40 years experience with the Assessors Office, told us of his list of College training credentials, said he trained other staff, had been at many Appeal Hearings, had been in 1000s and 1000s of attics, he was recommended as the man to take on our Case, yet here he was telling us he had found comparisons that have moved our un-extended Cottage from the bottom of Band D towards the top of Band D and he cannot remember one comparison he used!!

This is the same Council Tax Manager who informed us that he did not know if they used a Code of Measurement and did not know if they used Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS)!  He has 40 yrs experience and does not know if they use a Code of Measurement!!

This is the same Council Tax Manager who later informed us that he did use RICS, then claimed he was asking me if his organisation used RICS!

This is the same Council Tax Manager that sent us 9 pages of Practice Notes that is used by staff, then later claimed they were old Practice Notes when he realised they favoured our Case!

This is the same Council Tax Manager that told us he could find evidence for any Band if he went out far enough.  

This is the same Council Tax Manager that told us it would be "grossly unfair" to use Comparison properties from a different area of value, then he went outside our local area, up to 7 miles away, to find Comparisons that favoured his Case!

This is the same Council Tax Manager that informed us - there is no one more honest than him!!!

Some people may think I'm being a bit of a cynic, however I do not believe this is the most honest guy I have met!

Does this sound unbelievable? - it is all on Tape and Documented evidence - no need to take my word.

I shall continue to give updates over the coming days and weeks.

Does any of this sound familiar?  

GlennCTax

When we Complained about our first assessor, (a Senior Technician), the Depute Assessor who was also the Complaints Officer closed down our Complaint immediately.  After we wrote to the "Assessor", the Complaint had to be re-opened.

We know this Depute Assessor had a close working relationship with the Technician.  It appeared to us this Depute Assessor was attempting to cover for the Senior Technician by closing down our Complaint so abruptly.

The Depute Assessor stated that he did not believe the allegations we were making against this Technician, however, when we offered to meet with the "Assessor" to listen to our Taped Recordings of our meetings with this Technician, the assessors did not take up this offer.

In fact the Depute Assessor nor the "Assessor" made any comment in relation to our offer of listening to the Taped Evidence!!

We later learned that this Depute Assessor was the Line Manager of the Technician.  We believed and still believe there was a conflict of interest in allowing the Depute Assessor to deal with our Complaint against this Technician.

This Depute Assessor misled in a Freedom of Information Reply by denying he was the Line Manager of the Technician we Complained about.  All of our evidence clearly shows the Depute Assessor was indeed the Line Manager of the Technician.

Supporting Evidence

1 - When we first sent our email Complaint to the Technician, he informed us in an email, that he forwarded the Complaint we made against him, to his Line Manager. 

A Freedom of Information reply showed the Technician forwarded our Complaint to the Depute Assessor. He was the only person that received our Complaint.

No one else received this Complaint, as the Technician said to us in his email, he had forwarded the Complaint to his Line Manager, the Depute Assessor.


2 - In an other email to us from the Technician, he informed us that he had been at a meeting with his Line Manager on a specific date.

A Freedom of Information reply again showed he was at this meeting with his Line Manager, the Depute Assessor!!


3 - A Taped Recording with this Technician at our House Meeting, shows the Technician again informed us that this Depute Assessor was his boss.  The Technician told us how he was at a Hearing of Appeal working along with his boss the Depute Assessor!!!


4 - A Freedom of Information reply showed this Depute Assessor gave misleading information in relation to our Request to see the Minutes of previous Valuation Appeal Hearings.

The Depute Assessor redacted all assessors names, claiming he had only redacted personal information.  We wrote a  detailed Complaint to the "Assessor" showing the Valuation Appeal Minutes had been heavily redacted by the Depute Assessor, before he sent the Minutes out to us.

We proved that the Minutes had been so heavily redacted that it rendered the Minutes useless.  All 300 pages of Minutes had to be reprinted, then sent out again in their proper format.

Once we received the Minutes showing all assessors names, we could see this Depute Assessor had a close working relationship with the Technician going back years.

This Line Manager (Depute Assessor) had been working with the Technician over a number of years.  This is why there was a Conflict of Interest.  


This is only a sample of this Depute Assessors behaviour.  This Depute Assessor has used misleading information in almost every item of information he sent out to us!!

Again our allegations are backed up by Taped Recordings, Library archives, Planning Department documents, approximately £1000 spent on Register of Sasines documents etc.

More information will be added in the coming days and weeks.

Had a similar experience?

GlennCTax

(See posts above)  By the time we had our 3rd meeting with the assessors, we had so much documented and Taped Evidence of misleading information, that we had absolutely no confidence in any of the information the assessors were giving us. 

We sent a Freedom of Information Request to the Assessor, to see the Tone Date properties the assessors had access to, as this would allow us to check the assessors Comparisons and their assessment.

Our FOI request was sent to this Depute Assessor, not only was he the Complaints Officer, he also dealt with all of our FOI's!!

We requested to see all Tone Date Cottages within 5 miles of our Cottage as the assessors informed us this is what they used for their assessment.   When we received our Tone Date list, it was blatantly obvious this list had been sent out in a format that rendered this list useless!

Not one property in the list had a house number, making it impossible to identify any individual property.  The assessors go into Court with these Tone Date properties in every one of their Hearings.   They use these properties to compare against the Appellants house.  They have been using these Tone Date properties against members of the public for almost 30 years!!

The Scottish Assessors Website advised the public to take photos of their Comparison properties as this would help when they arrive at their Hearing of Appeal. 

This Depute Assessor knew this list he sent us in response to a FOI request was  completely useless without the house numbers!  How could we take a photo of the properties when we cannot identify them. 

We wrote a Complaint to the Assessor detailing the obvious problems with the list, and again the list was reprinted and sent out with all house numbers included.

Now that we could see each property in detail, this allowed us the opportunity to investigate the list  of properties and the assessors assessments.  It was not long before we began to uncover misleading information in the Tone Date properties within the list and the assessors Comparison properties.  By this time we realised every item of evidence the assessors were using had to be checked and verified.

This whole Case could have been over years ago.  If our first assessor did his job properly and simply went into Court with honest Evidence and let the Court Committee deliberate on the evidence before them. 

Unfortunately for us, the Technician decided he would add a number of new Comparison properties to his Evidence list only 2 days before our Hearing.  We knew we could not properly check his new Evidence just 2 days before our Hearing.

We had to postpone the Hearing to give us time to check his new Evidence.  After we checked his new Evidence we found he had been using grossly misleading information to the extent that it strongly favoured his Case!!   We later discovered misleading information had been used in, every area of his assessment.

This was the same Technician, that we originally agreed with, we also thanked him at that time for showing us his Evidence!!


We had lost trust in the information the assessors were giving us and the FOI replies we were receiving from the Depute Assessor. 

We requested to see the Minutes of previous Hearing of Appeals over the past 30 years.  We wanted to see what kind of evidence the assessors had led in previous Hearings.  We offered to attend their offices to read the Minutes from a folder if that was more convenient.

As mentioned above, we had caught the Senior Technician giving misleading  evidence on Tape and also caught him using misleading information in his Court Evidence  (The Assessor had written to us to remind us that the Hearing of Appeal was a "Court of Law" !!). 

The assessors knew we had some damaging Evidence against them, we believed the assessors were trying to appease us by pretending to co-operate with our requests while supplying us with misleading information.

When we received our FOI response, the Depute Assessor had sent us 300 pages of previous Hearing of Appeal Minutes.  At first glance of the first few pages, it was clear the Minutes were again heavily redacted before they were sent out to us. 

The Pages were so heavily redacted to the extent that the 300 pages were useless.  This Depute Assessor had wrongly claimed he had only redacted personal data.

It was patently clear to us his statement was not true.  We again sent a detailed Complaint to the Assessor, showing the Depute Assessors claim that he had only redacted personal data was simply not true.

Once again all 300 pages of Minutes had to be reprinted and sent out again.  Once we received the Minutes in their proper format, we could then read and make sense of the Minutes. 

We read all pages from cover to cover.  We could now see why the Depute Assessor was so keen to redact these Minutes!!

I shall continue to give updates in the coming days and weeks.

Had a similar experience?

GlennCTax

(See posts above) 

1 - After reading through the 300 pages of Valuation Appeal Minutes, we could see the Depute Assessor had worked closely with the Senior Technician for years.  Time and Time again, we could see both these assessors attending Court Hearings working closely on Cases together.

This Depute Assessor was investigating a Complaint which we made against a close colleague of this Depute Assessor.  We believe this is why the Depute Assessor prematurely closed down our Complaint when he received it.  This Complaint had to be reopened after we Complained against the actions of the Depute Assessor/Complaints Officer.

Information on the Scottish Assessors website, showed that when Complaints are made against Senior staff members, caution should be taken to ensure the Complaint is dealt with by an independent staff member!

This Depute Assessor attempted to distance himself from this Senior Technician, by claiming he was not the Technicians Line Manager.  This was one of the reasons the Depute Assessor redacted all assessors names, in a bid to cover up he worked closely with the Technician over a number of years.  (This Senior Technician had worked at the Assessors Office for approximately 40 years!!).

This is the same Depute Assessor/Complaints Officer that sent our Complaints to the 2 new assessors taking over our Case when the Senior Technician was taken off our Case as he was retiring. Our Evidence shows this Depute Assessor has shown extreme bias against us and our Case, from day one.

2 - Our Evidence clearly shows the Depute Assessor has withheld numerous Appeal Minutes from the Minutes he sent out.
Our experience shows, if the assessors come up against Evidence that does not favour their Case, they withhold the Evidence or alter the Evidence to favour the assessors Case!

3 - After reading through the 300 pages (repeatedly), it was clear to us, this Depute Assessor has still redacted various areas of the Minutes in a bid to cover up for the assessors unscrupulous behaviour in Court!

4 - We also found Evidence of cut and paste being used within the Minutes!!

More unscrupulous behaviour to follow regarding this Depute Assessor/Complaints Officer.

I shall give further updates in the coming days and weeks.

Had a similar experience?

GlennCTax

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