Do I HAVE to have a smart meter?

matt_drummer

MikeJXE said:

Your point regarding expiry date was not what I was getting at. Plus an expiry date would not push me to moving to a smart meter 

If it ain't broke don't try to fix it 

My point was numerous threads on here are mostly about smart meter problems and rarely any problems with none smart meters so why change ?

Most consumers are not energy meter engineers or technicians.

I would imagine that most people go to forums when they have a problem, I'm not sure many of us come here each day to report that their smart meters are working properly although mine seem to be today.

I'm not sure how the average consumer would know whether their meters were functioning correctly.

I am sure most of us would notice if they stopped recording altogether.

How do you ascertain if your meters are working correctly?

How will you know when they stop functioning correctly?

Do you have access to any special functions on your meters that give you information on their performance and recording quality?

matt_drummer

MikeJXE said:

My point was numerous threads on here are mostly about smart meter problems and rarely any problems with none smart meters so why change ?

There are numerous good reasons for changing that have been explained many, many times on this forum.

Scot_39

BrainDrained said:

Please don't try to persuade me otherwise, I DO NOT want a smart meter.

My energy supplier has been sending me regular emails telling me to book an appointment, which I ignore.

Now they are telling me my electricity meter has reached the end of its life and needs to be replaced.  It was replaced in Jan 2015.  I do not know the type but it has a digital display, not a dial like the old one.  (And my gas meter is still the original one, dating from 1971).  There is no suspicion that it's not working correctly, though my energy usage has fluctuated quite a lot over the last 12 months for various reasons (which might look suspicious if their computer analyses customers' energy bills very carefully!).

I thought these meters were supposed to last at least 10 years.

Are they telling me it HAS to be replaced NOW so they can force a smart meter on me?  Any way I can insist on not having a smart meter?

The official advice to energy suppliers is that they are now allowed to offer Smart as the only option at end of life.

But like all Ofgem advice there is a Caveat - unless their is a good reason not to.

And the only suggested good reason - is not in a smart signal area.

Legally however not sure this means they can force one - yet  (every change to date has only increased the likelihood of any new meter being smart).

However if they have no alternatives in stock - some MSErs were suggesting some were having to fit recondition / Lab recertified even years ago - and they do supposedly legally also need a valid certified meter.

You might be able to ask for a non smart.  Have you tried.

The letters themselves are often a reflection of the pressure to complete roll out, rather than strict letter of the law.
Instigated under last govt, rules strengthened again c2008 currently still setting need, but date targets delayed by reality - network and device availability - repeatedly since, every house should be Smart meter long since on original timescales.

And even if get a non smart option this time,  in that case your option is perhaps heading ultimately in future to smart supply or no supply.

EssexHebridean

For clarity - we have seen many MANY threads on the board over the years with problems with analogue meters. We see less now - perhaps unsurprisingly - because there are less analogue meters out there as a good number have been changed...for Smart ones... 

born_again

MikeJXE said:

Previous to where I live now I had a smart meter for 2 years with OVO and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, I could follow my usage and agree with my bills 

Now I have moved back in time to an old fashioned none smart meter. I log my usage every week on a spreadsheet 

I'm with flexible Octopus and send them readings every month, my bills are exactly what I expect them to be

Having read lots of threads on here about smart meters not working, not being read by the energy companies for one reason or another.

I don't see the same problems with none smart meters and rarely see thread complaining about them 

So here's me also don't want a smart meter, I will listen to reason why they are better and probably agree but I don't want the hassle of it may not work properly as many on here seem to say 

Which is fine for people that want to read a meter each month.

How many threads are there about billing, estimated readings & people thinking the DD is for their actual usage. Because they have never actually read the meter for a long time, if at all.

One thing a smart meter should stop.
Yes there can be issues with communication between meter & co. But that is soon obvious to anyone who checks their bills & notices a estimated reading when they have a smart meter. Again this is down the the human to check the bill, not simply file it thinking it is right & the DD is covering the usage.

Yes, you can still check the smart meter readings to see if you agree with usage. But again that is down to the individual.

EssexHebridean

Smart gas meters are reckoned to have a battery life of about 10 years IIRC - and at the moment most suppliers seem reluctant to just change the battery. 

I'm glad you've found the thread useful in terms of gaining knowledge about meters generally - the certification list was a new one on me when it was posted a while ago, too! 

As for "technology taking over our lives" - it is technology that's enabled you to easily ask your original question - have it answered promptly, and be furnished with extra information along the way - so maybe not ALL bad? 

Sterlingtimes

Where a homeowner refuses the replacement of a time-expired meter, what happens in the event of a fire, explosion or similar? Would the supplier compensate? Would an insurer pay?

When the homeowner sells his house, does he declare to the buyer that the house has a time-expired meter and that he has refused replacement?

BrainDrained

EssexHebridean said:

Smart gas meters are reckoned to have a battery life of about 10 years IIRC - and at the moment most suppliers seem reluctant to just change the battery. 

I'm glad you've found the thread useful in terms of gaining knowledge about meters generally - the certification list was a new one on me when it was posted a while ago, too! 

As for "technology taking over our lives" - it is technology that's enabled you to easily ask your original question - have it answered promptly, and be furnished with extra information along the way - so maybe not ALL bad? 

Getting seriously off topic now

No not ALL bad.  I will admit to having had a personal computer in one form or another since the early 1990s...  but oh how wasteful it's been collecting all those floppy discs, then zip drives, rewritable CDs etc, and having to upgrade every couple of years to cope with more advanced operating systems. More waste and pollution, not to mention the hassle of converting old files to a newer format.

I used to be a computer programmer working on mid-range commercial systems.  The average company back then could be run from something with less computing power than your average smart watch. It took up half a room and needed air conditioning!  

It's all very well having variable tariffs linked in to certain periods of low demand, but these tariffs can also be changed so very easily and possibly without the consumer knowing or consenting.

MattMattMattUK

Sterlingtimes said:

Where a homeowner refuses the replacement of a time-expired meter, what happens in the event of a fire, explosion or similar? Would the supplier compensate? Would an insurer pay?

If the homeowner refused then the supplier would obtain a warrant to replace the meter. No idea on the other parts of that question though.

Sterlingtimes said:

When the homeowner sells his house, does he declare to the buyer that the house has a time-expired meter and that he has refused replacement?

I would suspect they probably should, but likely would not, though it could be resolved by the new homeowner quickly and with zero costs. 

Spoonie_Turtle

matt_drummer said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It might cause problems with the crazies though, if a meter needed to be replaced ahead of the sticker date then the crazy would complain it was a smart meter conspiracy theory thing.

For most consumers, an expiry date would be useful, the date it was made or commissioned is of little use if they all have varying certification periods that can be changed at any time.

The list is very easily found if you know what to look for.  It's relatively easily found even if you don't.

I'd be willing to bet the OP's is on there just not in a format they've recognised yet - e.g. ours is Landis+Gyr but our particular model showed up with 'Ampy/L+G' as the manufacturer (and it took me several goes to find ours anyway as I was looking for Z45M15 as the model number instead of the actual, 5235A).  I'm sure legally all electric meter models still in use have to be on there.