Delivery "insurance" surcharge following order placement

km1500

one option could be you went to a clone website as this does not sound like something an established retailer would do.

What was the web address you went to  and ordered from ?

JVN01

born_again said:

JVN01 said:

born_again said:

JVN01 said:

Hi there

Would appreciate some advice. Ordered a lawnmower online (uk supplier for uk delivery) and paid in full (£174.95 including a nominal £5 delivery charge). Had subsequent email order confirmation and invoice.

Next day received a random email from a delivery company (registered in Kentucky, USA with a USA contact phone number) demanding payment of a £120 "delivery insurance" fee (allegedly refundable 'by cash or cheque' on delivery) before they would deliver the item to me. 

 Assuming that this was possibly a scam, and that the retailer website had maybe been compromised (the courier had my contact info, and order/invoice details) I contacted the supplier asking them to clarify what was going on and whether they were aware of the situation.

The retailer replied to say yes, this is legitimate and if the courier are demanding pre payment of delivery insurance then I have to pay it before the item will be delivered... so say I was dumbstruck would be an understatement! This type of practice is something I have never heard of before in all the years I have been ordering goods online in the uk...

Not wanting to get drawn into a long argument with the rogue courier company I requested to the retailer to cancel my order and issue me a full refund, on the basis that had I known that their chosen courier would expect me to pay an additional £120 in advance of delivery then I would never have chosen to order the item with them in the first place. The retailer have responded to say I cannot cancel the order now "as it has already been dispatched" (even though it is still showing as 'pending' on the order tracking, and located at the supplier depot), and they are refusing to issue me a refund.

So in summary, I've paid the retailer in full, including delivery, for an item costing under £170 and I'm being asked to pay a further £120 "refundable insurance" before their chosen courier will deliver the item.

I quick check of online consumer rights pages regarding delivery surcharges suggests the law is quite clear in this regard in that I was not provided with all the 'material information' necessary for me to make the correct decision whether to enter into a contract of sale with the supplier before I placed the order.

In addition, even immediately after placing the order, I was not advised by the supplier that their chosen courier would be demanding additional fees (refundable or not seems irrelevant). In this case, I would have immediately cancelled the order at that stage before the item was 'dispatched'. By not informing me of the additional delivery fees until the order was complete the retailer are now using that as their excuse not to issue me a refund.

I'm still gobsmacked that they are prepared to get drawn into this with a customer but I would appreciate some advice as to how to proceed!

The most recent email was from the supplier this morning basically saying "our team and our lawyer are ready for you to pursue any avenue you choose to get a refund but we will not be cancelling the order as it has already been shipped"

Nice contradiction by the retailer.

Simply do not pay & wait & see if it gets delivered. 
If it does, it's not a issue & leave a review warning other about this practise.
If it does not, then depending on card used to pay. Visa 15 days, Mastercard 30 days. Chargeback for non receipt of goods. Do not mention that you tried to cancel.

Maybe find a email for owner & let them know about this practise. Maybe they do not know. As never known a courier want insurance paid for delivery, by a customer that they refund.

Are you prepared to name this courier?

Unfortunately, I have already paid in full at time of placing the order using a debit card (so my refund protection options are limited). So my issue is getting the refund for the money I have already paid...

The courier are (bizarrely) listed as a USA company "PMDS" (Postal Mail Delivery Services Inc) with a USA contact number, and they have been communicating with me directly via whatsapp using a USA based number +1 480 788-8533.

I have instructed the courier I won't be paying any insurance fees so my beef is no longer with them.

My problem is with the UK retailer who are still refusing to issue me a refund on the basis the item has already been shipped (despite it still showing as pending at the depot) and it being their chosen courier who are employing these practices, and I was given no prior warning of these additional charges at any stage during or immediately following the order process..

As far as I'm aware the contract of sale between myself and the retailer is not valid since the retailer did not provide all material information to me at the time of sale (I would never have ordered from them if I had known that their chosen courier would apply such delivery surcharges).

Now I just need to know what my best options are to pursue my refund...

As I said. Non receipt refund if it does not turn up.. Refund protection is exactly the same as a credit card.👍

My bet is it will turn up. But of course if it has been dispatched, then retailer will not refund. Which courier do they say they use?

That courier company does not show up on a google search, nor does the tel number.
Whatsapp contact would be a big alarm bell. 

My thoughts exactly on the courier details, and the whatsapp contact. But the retailer insist it's a legit courier business and it's the retailer who are playing hard ball not issuing the refund..

I doubt it will turn up, unless the retailer agree to pay the 'refundable insurance fee', but I already suggested that to the retailer (before I requested a refund) and they refused, saying it was my responsibility to deal with the courier... #muppets

JVN01

km1500 said:

one option could be you went to a clone website as this does not sound like something an established retailer would do.

What was the web address you went to  and ordered from ?

The website I ordered from was smallenginesmachineryDOTcom which is a business registered at Companies House as 'Small Engine Services Garden Machinery Ltd', who appear to have posted dormant accounts for the past 5 years or so...

They also seem to trade under other names including mowerproDOTcoDOTuk...

Manxman_in_exile

... Not wanting to get drawn into a long argument with the rogue courier company I requested to the retailer to cancel my order and issue me a full refund,...

In this sort of situation I wouldn't be "requesting" the cancellation of my order, I'd be telling them I'd cancelled it.

You have two possibilities depending on precisely when a contrcat was formed between you and the UK supplier.  (Check the T&Cs to see when a contract is formed - it's usually on "dispatch" but you need to check your T&Cs to be certain).

If you are in the period (1) after you've placed the order but no contract has yet been formed (according to the supplier's T&Cs) then you are perfectly free to tell the supplier that you are withdrawing your offer to buy and you want a full refund.

If you are in the period (2) after you've placed the order and a contract has been formed, then you are in the cancellation period under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) and you are free to cancel the order for a full refund.  You don't have to wait for the goods to be delivered to you.

So, depending on whether a contract has been formed yet you can tell the supplier that you are withdrawing your offer to buy and/or exercising your right to cancel under reg 29 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) and you want a full refund.  And you can tell them to put that to their lawyer - if they have one.

The only problem I can see is that if you get a refund and then the mower turns up.  I suppose you will then have to make a decision whether you want to keep it (and pay the supplier £175 again) or send it back - possibly at your own cost depending on what the supplier's T&Cs say about "change of mind" returns.

user1977

JVN01 said:

km1500 said:

one option could be you went to a clone website as this does not sound like something an established retailer would do.

What was the web address you went to  and ordered from ?

The website I ordered from was smallenginesmachineryDOTcom which is a business registered at Companies House as 'Small Engine Services Garden Machinery Ltd', who appear to have posted dormant accounts for the past 5 years or so...

In which case I doubt that's the entity you're contracting with (unless anybody wants to accuse them of submitting incorrect accounts...). I can't see any clues on their website about who they think they legally are.

molerat

If a machine has been purchased and is no longer required, within 30 days, the machine can be returned for a refund. There are charges for the initial delivery and collection plus a 20% restocking fee.

https://smallenginesmachinery.com/return-policy/

Oh dear

Nearlyold

There's some worrying anomalies in the details. Small Engine Services Bridport appears to be a small "hands on" repairs spares and sales business in modest premises - they don't have any website details just E-Bay and Facebook where their main trade would appear to be used parts and repairs with a local Bridport phone number.

The about us info for smallenginesmachinery.com has a picture of a palatial showroom with a large floor display of machinery with prices in dollars - whilst the address given is Bridport the area code for the phone number is Manchester.

jon81uk

Nearlyold said:

There's some worrying anomalies in the details. Small Engine Services Bridport appears to be a small "hands on" repairs spares and sales business in modest premises - they don't have any website details just E-Bay and Facebook where their main trade would appear to be used parts and repairs with a local Bridport phone number.

The about us info for smallenginesmachinery.com has a picture of a palatial showroom with a large floor display of machinery with prices in dollars - whilst the address given is Bridport the area code for the phone number is Manchester.

it does look like someone has taken some images of a genuine business and other images of American stores and built a scam website.

TadleyBaggie

The website only seems to have been registered 4 months ago. This is looking more like a fake website pretending to be a reputable business.

JVN01

Nearlyold said:

There's some worrying anomalies in the details. Small Engine Services Bridport appears to be a small "hands on" repairs spares and sales business in modest premises - they don't have any website details just E-Bay and Facebook where their main trade would appear to be used parts and repairs with a local Bridport phone number.

The about us info for smallenginesmachinery.com has a picture of a palatial showroom with a large floor display of machinery with prices in dollars - whilst the address given is Bridport the area code for the phone number is Manchester.

Yep you're correct, it appears their brand name/website has been cloned/sproofed after all. I just had a reply from their eBay outlet 20 min ago (whom I tried contacting over the weekend) to say they are aware of a fraudulent website operating under their name and that I should contact my bank to report the fraudulent activity... So I spoke to the bank and cancelled my card and will hopefully get a refund in due course...

Not sure what I could have done differently to avoid getting stung like this, but at least I caught it in time before any further charges were made to my card.

Cheeky feckers

Thanks for the advice anyway folks! Be careful out there...