Tenancy confusion

GDB2222

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Have you been paying rent to an agent?

 If not and you have been paying rent direct to a non UK resident landlord, have you needed to deduct tax at source?

I've been paying rent into a UK bank account in the joint names of my original landlord (now deceased) and his agent. I have not been asked to deduct tax.

It sounds as if you have been paying an agent, so the responsibility to deal with any deduction of tax at source is the agents.  

Do be alive to this issue though if asked to pay rent direct to an overseas landlord.

That is precisely what I am being asked to do from now on - landlady has provided me with a new bank account to pay the rent into - Commonwealth Bank which I'm assuming is in Australia?

In that case, you had better read this link.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-tax-on-rent-to-landlords-abroad


I suggest you send that to the landlord, so she knows that you are not making it up! 

sourpuss2021

Have you had many rent increases over the course of the tenancy?

How does the rent you are paying compare with the current market rate for the area, as you can check on Rightmove or OpenRent?

If another rental would not be possible, are there any over-55 housing associations in your vicinity that you could apply to?

_Penny_Dreadful

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Have you been paying rent to an agent?

 If not and you have been paying rent direct to a non UK resident landlord, have you needed to deduct tax at source?

I've been paying rent into a UK bank account in the joint names of my original landlord (now deceased) and his agent. I have not been asked to deduct tax.

It sounds as if you have been paying an agent, so the responsibility to deal with any deduction of tax at source is the agents.  

Do be alive to this issue though if asked to pay rent direct to an overseas landlord.

That is precisely what I am being asked to do from now on - landlady has provided me with a new bank account to pay the rent into - Commonwealth Bank which I'm assuming is in Australia?

Commonwealth Bank is an Australian bank but it does have a presence in the UK.  Have you been supplied with a 6 digit sort code and an 8 digit account number? Australian bank accounts in Australia have a 6 digit BSB and usually a 9 digit account number.

marleneb1

_Penny_Dreadful said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Have you been paying rent to an agent?

 If not and you have been paying rent direct to a non UK resident landlord, have you needed to deduct tax at source?

I've been paying rent into a UK bank account in the joint names of my original landlord (now deceased) and his agent. I have not been asked to deduct tax.

It sounds as if you have been paying an agent, so the responsibility to deal with any deduction of tax at source is the agents.  

Do be alive to this issue though if asked to pay rent direct to an overseas landlord.

That is precisely what I am being asked to do from now on - landlady has provided me with a new bank account to pay the rent into - Commonwealth Bank which I'm assuming is in Australia?

Commonwealth Bank is an Australian bank but it does have a presence in the UK.  Have you been supplied with a 6 digit sort code and an 8 digit account number? Australian bank accounts in Australia have a 6 digit BSB and usually a 9 digit account number.

No sort code, just a 14 digit smart access account number and a BIC/SWIFT code.

_Penny_Dreadful

marleneb1 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Have you been paying rent to an agent?

 If not and you have been paying rent direct to a non UK resident landlord, have you needed to deduct tax at source?

I've been paying rent into a UK bank account in the joint names of my original landlord (now deceased) and his agent. I have not been asked to deduct tax.

It sounds as if you have been paying an agent, so the responsibility to deal with any deduction of tax at source is the agents.  

Do be alive to this issue though if asked to pay rent direct to an overseas landlord.

That is precisely what I am being asked to do from now on - landlady has provided me with a new bank account to pay the rent into - Commonwealth Bank which I'm assuming is in Australia?

Commonwealth Bank is an Australian bank but it does have a presence in the UK.  Have you been supplied with a 6 digit sort code and an 8 digit account number? Australian bank accounts in Australia have a 6 digit BSB and usually a 9 digit account number.

No sort code, just a 14 digit smart access account number and a BIC/SWIFT code.

That sounds like she is expecting you to pay money into an Australian bank account.  Is she offering to pay the fees or allow you to knock the fees off the rent?  I don't know if there is some legislation that says your landlord has to use a UK bank account.  Perhaps @propertyrental knows?

Before doing anything I'd suggest getting your ducks in a row.  The Assured Tenancy or Assured Shorthold Tenancy is an important question to answer because it will determine how easy it is for your landlord to evict you.  Once you have established that then you can write to the address for the serving of notices, which must be an address in England or Wales, telling your landlord about the tax deduction and politely telling her to poke it about paying your rent into a non-UK bank account because of the charges.

RAS

The OP indicated that the oldest rental agreement she has dates from 1995 and was an AST, in her second post on page 1.

Marlene, was the rent paid to the agent until recently?

marleneb1

RAS said:

The OP indicated that the oldest rental agreement she has dates from 1995 and was an AST, in her second post on page 1.

Marlene, was the rent paid to the agent until recently?

It has historically been paid into a Nationwide account in the joint names of the landlord (now deceased) and the agent. I did raise concerns about paying money into the account of a deceased person when he died but was told by the agent to continue doing so. This 'agent' is in fact a bona fide Letting Agent but informed me that she was managing the property as a favour to the landlord as he was her ex-partner many years and resident in Australia. I have no idea what, if any, arrangements she had with him regarding onward transmission of the rent I paid over the years, or how(if) it was reported to HMRC. It's only now that the landlady appears to be setting matters up to evict me that these questions become important perhaps. Six years have elapsed since the landlord's death and the notification of new ownership of the freehold. It all seems like a minefield tbh.

marleneb1

_Penny_Dreadful said:

marleneb1 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

marleneb1 said:

SDLT_Geek said:

Have you been paying rent to an agent?

 If not and you have been paying rent direct to a non UK resident landlord, have you needed to deduct tax at source?

I've been paying rent into a UK bank account in the joint names of my original landlord (now deceased) and his agent. I have not been asked to deduct tax.

It sounds as if you have been paying an agent, so the responsibility to deal with any deduction of tax at source is the agents.  

Do be alive to this issue though if asked to pay rent direct to an overseas landlord.

That is precisely what I am being asked to do from now on - landlady has provided me with a new bank account to pay the rent into - Commonwealth Bank which I'm assuming is in Australia?

Commonwealth Bank is an Australian bank but it does have a presence in the UK.  Have you been supplied with a 6 digit sort code and an 8 digit account number? Australian bank accounts in Australia have a 6 digit BSB and usually a 9 digit account number.

No sort code, just a 14 digit smart access account number and a BIC/SWIFT code.

That sounds like she is expecting you to pay money into an Australian bank account.  Is she offering to pay the fees or allow you to knock the fees off the rent?  I don't know if there is some legislation that says your landlord has to use a UK bank account.  Perhaps @propertyrental knows?

Before doing anything I'd suggest getting your ducks in a row.  The Assured Tenancy or Assured Shorthold Tenancy is an important question to answer because it will determine how easy it is for your landlord to evict you.  Once you have established that then you can write to the address for the serving of notices, which must be an address in England or Wales, telling your landlord about the tax deduction and politely telling her to poke it about paying your rent into a non-UK bank account because of the charges.

I'm not sure how I'd establish whether the initial tenancy agreement was assured or assured shorthold. Would it be worth asking for a copy of it do you think?

propertyrental

1) you have not been given an address in England/Wales for serving notices, therefore no rent is due. see
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/48.
Stop paying rent.
2) If /when you receive this, all back rent will be due however.
3) Even when you receive this, since you've been instructed to pay an overseas landlord to an overseas bank, you should deduct the UK tax, unless you are given the appropriate HMRC consent for the LL to receive the rent in full. See
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-tax-on-rent-to-landlords-abroad
So if/when you receive a S48 address (above) do not pay the full rent. Deduct her tax and keep it aside in case HMRC demand it off you.
4) You have not received formal notification of the new landlord as per 
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/3
This is a criminal offence, though I doubt anyone will charge her in Australia....
5) She became your landlord on the date Probate was granted and the property transferred by the Executors of the will to her
6) if she wishes to evict you, she will have to serve a S21 Notice and apply to a UK court. As she has not complied with S3 (above) I doubt the court will accept her as landlord, so will (may?) dismiss the S21
7) the S21(if you receive one) could be invalid for any one of 57 reasons. check here:
S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)
8) Please quote the letter accompanying the cheque you received. How much deposit did you pay? Was it ever protected? Check here:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/check_your_tenancy_deposit_is_protected
9) You may wish to consider not cashing the cheque, and either returning it or ignoring it. Cashing it could be implied as accepting your deposit has been returned which, yes, could remove one obsticle to a future S21 notice. You could simply email back (do you have email address?) saying it is the wrong amount (assuming her letter specifically states it is the deposit).
10) the joint account you mentioned you used to pay into: who was the joint account holder? A letting agent? Relative? Do you have any ongoing contact/relationship with this person/company?

marleneb1

propertyrental said:

1) you have not been given an address in England/Wales for serving notices, therefore no rent is due. see
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/48.
Stop paying rent.
2) If /when you receive this, all back rent will be due however.
3) Even when you receive this, since you've been instructed to pay an overseas landlord to an overseas bank, you should deduct the UK tax, unless you are given the appropriate HMRC consent for the LL to receive the rent in full. See
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-tax-on-rent-to-landlords-abroad
So if/when you receive a S48 address (above) do not pay the full rent. Deduct her tax and keep it aside in case HMRC demand it off you.
4) You have not received formal notification of the new landlord as per 
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/3
This is a criminal offence, though I doubt anyone will charge her in Australia....
5) She became your landlord on the date Probate was granted and the property transferred by the Executors of the will to her
6) if she wishes to evict you, she will have to serve a S21 Notice and apply to a UK court. As she has not complied with S3 (above) I doubt the court will accept her as landlord, so will (may?) dismiss the S21
7) the S21(if you receive one) could be invalid for any one of 57 reasons. check here:
S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)
8) Please quote the letter accompanying the cheque you received. How much deposit did you pay? Was it ever protected? Check here:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/check_your_tenancy_deposit_is_protected
9) You may wish to consider not cashing the cheque, and either returning it or ignoring it. Cashing it could be implied as accepting your deposit has been returned which, yes, could remove one obsticle to a future S21 notice. You could simply email back (do you have email address?) saying it is the wrong amount (assuming her letter specifically states it is the deposit).
10) the joint account you mentioned you used to pay into: who was the joint account holder? A letting agent? Relative? Do you have any ongoing contact/relationship with this person/company?

Thank you for this information. She has now formally given me an address for the service of notices in the UK and Australia. 
The returned deposit cheque is for £1250 which she claims was paid in 2 instalments  - £250 when I moved in in 1993 and a subsequent amount of £1000 paid at a later, unspecified date. I know I did not pay £1000 extra and can't imagine why I would.
I do have an email address for her and have asked her why she has suddenly provided these documents and returned the deposit but have had no response.
The joint account is in the names of the deceased landlord and the letting agent. I have had no contact directly with the letting agent since my landlord died in 2017 although the UK address provided for the service of current notices is hers so she clearly is still advising my landlady.