Help with Gemini Parking solution for appeal at POPLA stage for lease car

busyman

Hello all, 

I appealed to Gemini as a hirer of the vehicle, after the lease firm named me as the hirer. Used Edna's template -2nd link in the newbies page. Gemini rejected my appeal, stating that their PCN is non-PAFA PCN and the timeframes differ to those in set out in POFA 2012. 
Unsure what timeframes they use in this case and what shall I use  for the POPLA stage if not the timeframe related to Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4? 

Here is their response: 
 You recently contacted us to appeal the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)xxxxx that was issued to the above vehicle

registration on 30/01/2023 at GLL Mile End, London, E3 4HL. This PCN was issued because the vehicle broke the following

parking regulation: Failure to Pay for Duration of Stay.

Members using a scratch card must report to reception with the scratch card in exchange for being added to the whitelist.

At the time the ANPR cameras observed the vehicle they noted that it had used the car park without a valid payment or

exemption, therefore it was parked in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park and a Parking Charge Notice was

issued. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that they read the terms and conditions on the signage in the car park.

Regarding the timeframe you have referred to, this only relates to a PCN that has been issued under the Protection of

Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012. This PCN has not been issued under this Act, and therefore the timeframe you have referred to is

not applicable in this instance.

Please note that the PCN has been issued in line with the guidelines set out by the British Parking Association (BPA) for

issuing a Non-POFA PCN, and the timeframes differ to those set out in POFA 2012.

Having considered all grounds for the appeal you will understand that sadly we are unable to accept your appeal. You have

now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options: You can pay the total amount

due or you can appeal to an Independent Appeals Service, POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) within 28 days using

the POPLA Reference code provided. Should you wish to make a second appeal, this can be done through POPLA – the

independent appeals service – at www.popla.co.uk.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative

dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in

their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to further appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as

outlined here. Your POPLA verification code is: 4160683024 .

Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will regrettably no longer be able to pay the charge at the discounted rate

of £60.00. Should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour, you will then be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. When

parking on private land, the motorist agrees to abide by any clearly displayed conditions of parking in return for permission to

park. This location is private property and is managed by Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd on behalf of the land owner.

Gemini Parking Solutions fully complies with the guidelines set by the British Parking Association. Please note that

photographic evidence is taken with every PCN that is issued.

Payment at the discounted rate £60.00 can be made within 14 days from the date of this letter. Regrettably payments made

after this period will be for the full amount of £100.00. Failure to pay the amount may result in further costs being incurred and

may also result in Gemini Parking Solutions Ltd, reluctantly instructing a Debt Collection agency to collect any sum due.

Please make Cheques / Postal Orders payable to: Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd Send Cheques / Postal Orders to:

Payments Department, PO Box 815, Wigan, WN1 9WX. Please write your Name, Address and Parking Charge Notice Number

(PCN) on the rear of all cheques and postal orders. When making payment by post we recommend using the Royal Mail’s

‘Recorded – Signed For’ or ‘Special Delivery’ services. Cash should not be sent through the post

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

As Gemini have confirmed that their PCN doesn't comply with PoFA, there is no way that any driver's liability can be passed to the keeper - i.e. you.
They have no way of finding out who was driving unless you tell them.

You ask what you can use at PoPLA.
As you say, timeframes are not relevant, but paras 13 and 14 of POFA certainly are.

The documents mentioned in paras 13 and 14 of POFA were not sent to the hirer - i.e. you - were they?

Unfortunately you have left your PoPLA verification code clearly visible in your above post. That may be enough for anyone without your best interests at heart to really screw up your chances of winning a PoPLA appeal. It's also unfortunate that as a new user you will be unable to edit your post and it is also my understanding that MSE's forum team don't work weekends and this is a looooong weekend.

1505grandad

Gemini Parking Solutions London LTD  -- have they recently joined IPC?

Coupon-mad

Doubt it...they are a more reasonable bunch (IMHO not suited to the IPC) and were bought out in 2022 by APCOA, another BPA member.

This PCN has not been issued under this Act, and therefore the timeframe you have referred to is not applicable in this instance.

Great.  'No hirer liability' wins then!  Easy peasy.

1505grandad

 Assuming I am using correctly but when using the Wayback Machine:-

Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd

http://www.geminiparkingsolutions.com

Shows on BPA AoS members list:-

18.01.2.023

Not showing:-

23.02.23 and 6.03.2023

Shows on IPC AoS members list currently.

Not sure if relevant but if I am wrong I blame the meds.

Coupon-mad

Interesting.  Did they always used to be called 'London'?  I don't think so...

Wondering if a Director has set up under a new company name because they didn't want to be swallowed up by the APCOA acquisition.

1505grandad

The BPA AoS lists for 26.12.2022 and 18.01.2023 show:-

Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd

http://www.geminiparkingsolutions.com

The link takes you to a website which includes the statement:-

"Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd uses cookies to enhance the quality of experience you receive when visiting our website."

Also shows:-

"Company No. 8214352"

Which is same as current IPC AoS list information.

Companies House shows:-

GEMINI PARKING SOLUTIONS LONDON LTD

Company number 08214352

Incorporated on

14 September 2012

Perhaps the APCOA group are in the future migrating to the even darker side.