Fined for parking in my allocated residential parking space.

TitaniumManta

Hi all, so I've received my court date which is early February, and I've received the witness statement from Gladstones. Which is 88 pages long, of which 47 of those pages are the flat underlease from 2010 for the property I'm renting. After reading through it, the only references to parking I can find are as follows:

Mutual Covenants 
4 (a) "Not to park or to suffer or permit to be parked upon any parking space allocated to the Premises from time to time any vehicle other than a fully taxed and roadworthy private motor car or such other vehicle as may be first approved in writing by the Landlord acting in its absolute discretion and not to use the cycle area (if any) except for the parking of a pedal bike."

4 (b) "Not to park or suffer or permit any occupier of or visitor to the Premises to park any motor vehicles on a parking space or any other part of the Estate other than a parking space on the Estate allocated to the Leaseholder by the Landlord for use in connection with the Leaseholder's occupation of the Premises or on the visitors parking spaces (if any) the latter to be used on a 'first come first served' basis."

Easements, Rights and Privileges
6 "The right to use the parking space (if any) allocated for the time being to the Premises the parking space allocated at the time hereof being shown marked on the plan marked 'Parking Plan' edged green."

Exceptions and Reservations
(e) "The right for the Landlord at any time upon reasonable notice to temporarily suspend or revoke the allocation of any parking space for the purposes of repair to any part of the adjoining road or for any reasonable other purpose. "

So nothing mentioning that a parking permit must be displayed as far as I can see. So I'm unsure why Gladstones would use this in their witness statement?

TitaniumManta

Also I've started working on my Witness Statement, I take it that the Witness Statement by bargepole is still the best example to use in my case (Parked in a residents only parking area, accessed by key fob)? Unless there's a more recent one?

My main points for my defence are going to be that there was nothing in my tenancy agreement about requiring a parking permit, and that there are other cars parked there without permits. Do I need to somehow include the photos I took of these vehicles in my Witness Statement? Thanks for all the help so far.

Coupon-mad

No, you should be using the more recent WS in the NEWBIES thread.  That other one is really old, albeit you can plagiarise sentences from it.

If they've already sent their WS it suggests the deadline is about now?  Check the hearing Order.

But!  What to do right now, is this please... to change all this by submitting your claim form to a Government Committee...only TWO WEEKS left to do this VERY relevant Inquiry linked & discussed here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80417494/#Comment_80417494

Relevant because the reason that the county court is clogged up is because up to a THIRD of all small claims are private parking. 

The delays by the CNBC are directly caused by half a million parking claims p.a.  It MUST stop. You can help.

Your claim paperwork and any other relevant evidence (and the fact you were parking when authorised, at your own home) will be great evidence.

Please tell the Ministers on this Committee that there needs to be a bespoke parking Alternative Dispute Resolution 'court buffer' at pre-action stage, and the use of the "debt claims" pre-action protocol is totally improper.  Asking for people's income on a 'debtor' reply form is an insult.

And why should parking cases have SIX YEARS to bring to court? They should have two years max, allowing 12/18 months for PCN, appeal, ADR, then impasse.  Then they should not be allowed to just sit on DVLA keeper data for years and gain 8% interest as a reward for sitting on their hands.

Also tell the Committee to please contact the DLUHC private parking Code of Practice team who would really appreciate a new PAP for Parking Claims and the 6 year claim Limitation period being at least halved for parking cases.  This would really support regulators in 2024 as the private parking regulation finally happens.

I think if enough people say the above sort of stuff, this Justice Committee will go and talk to the DLUHC guys I'm dealing with, and hopefully recommend a new pre-action protocol to stop the vast majority of cases even going to a claim.

Please please do the Inquiry with your claim form and views.

Not much time left.  Lots of responses will help to limit the way that PPCs will be allowed to use the court.

TitaniumManta

I think I'm getting my terminolgy mixed up, is it the Witness Statement or Defence I have to produce just before the County Court Hearing? Im pretty sure its the WS I need to produce, and as my deadline is Wednesday the 5th of December so I'm trying to get everything together this weekend for it.

The Witness Statement from Gladstones has 40 points in it, am I meant to counter every one of the points they made? Most of them I don't really have a counter argument for, such as not following the appeals process, and the they make many references to the parking signage. Do I have to post my WS to Gladstones as they did to me or will an email be enough?

I'm trying to find a WS as similar to my case as possible, I see on the Newbies thread that the posts by _blueberry_ and vincentvega27 are mentioned a few times. I've found the one by blueberry but can't seem to find the one by vincentvega27.

I will of course be submitting my claim form to the government committee, its scandolous that these companies can pursue these claims for years after the incident.

Coupon-mad

Very glad you will be responding to the Committee. Please do it after your WS so it's all fresh in your mind.

You can use blueberry's as your base; show us your draft WS bundle.

KeithP

TitaniumManta said:

Im pretty sure its the WS I need to produce, and as my deadline is Wednesday the 5th of December so I'm trying to get everything together this weekend for it.

Yes it is your Witness Statement that is needed.

But keep an eye on your deadline. 5th December isn't Wednesday.  

saajan_12

TitaniumManta said:

Hi all, so I've received my court date which is early February, and I've received the witness statement from Gladstones. Which is 88 pages long, of which 47 of those pages are the flat underlease from 2010 for the property I'm renting. After reading through it, the only references to parking I can find are as follows:

Mutual Covenants 
4 (a) "Not to park or to suffer or permit to be parked upon any parking space allocated to the Premises from time to time any vehicle other than a fully taxed and roadworthy private motor car or such other vehicle as may be first approved in writing by the Landlord acting in its absolute discretion and not to use the cycle area (if any) except for the parking of a pedal bike."

4 (b) "Not to park or suffer or permit any occupier of or visitor to the Premises to park any motor vehicles on a parking space or any other part of the Estate other than a parking space on the Estate allocated to the Leaseholder by the Landlord for use in connection with the Leaseholder's occupation of the Premises or on the visitors parking spaces (if any) the latter to be used on a 'first come first served' basis."

Easements, Rights and Privileges
6 "The right to use the parking space (if any) allocated for the time being to the Premises the parking space allocated at the time hereof being shown marked on the plan marked 'Parking Plan' edged green."

Exceptions and Reservations
(e) "The right for the Landlord at any time upon reasonable notice to temporarily suspend or revoke the allocation of any parking space for the purposes of repair to any part of the adjoining road or for any reasonable other purpose. "

So nothing mentioning that a parking permit must be displayed as far as I can see. So I'm unsure why Gladstones would use this in their witness statement?

That lease is between the freeholder and leaseholder (your landlord). If the landlord permitted an occupier (you) to park by giving you a tenancy including parking without any requirement for a permit, then the freeholder/parking co's beef is with the landlord. In the absence of signs in the parking area or any paperwork they gave to you personally, there's no contract with you. 

Coupon-mad

There were signs in the car park but whether the D's tenancy agreement they relied upon trumps those signs (and whether those signs & terms were clear and fair and applicable to authorised residents) will be up to a Judge.

TitaniumManta

KeithP said:

TitaniumManta said:

Im pretty sure its the WS I need to produce, and as my deadline is Wednesday the 5th of December so I'm trying to get everything together this weekend for it.

Yes it is your Witness Statement that is needed.

But keep an eye on your deadline. 5th December isn't Wednesday.  

Thanks you're quite right there! That would of been an silly mistake to make. I've probably not got time to send out my Witness Statement by post in time for the deadline, so I hope by email will have to do.

TitaniumManta

saajan_12 said:

TitaniumManta said:

Hi all, so I've received my court date which is early February, and I've received the witness statement from Gladstones. Which is 88 pages long, of which 47 of those pages are the flat underlease from 2010 for the property I'm renting. After reading through it, the only references to parking I can find are as follows:

Mutual Covenants 
4 (a) "Not to park or to suffer or permit to be parked upon any parking space allocated to the Premises from time to time any vehicle other than a fully taxed and roadworthy private motor car or such other vehicle as may be first approved in writing by the Landlord acting in its absolute discretion and not to use the cycle area (if any) except for the parking of a pedal bike."

4 (b) "Not to park or suffer or permit any occupier of or visitor to the Premises to park any motor vehicles on a parking space or any other part of the Estate other than a parking space on the Estate allocated to the Leaseholder by the Landlord for use in connection with the Leaseholder's occupation of the Premises or on the visitors parking spaces (if any) the latter to be used on a 'first come first served' basis."

Easements, Rights and Privileges
6 "The right to use the parking space (if any) allocated for the time being to the Premises the parking space allocated at the time hereof being shown marked on the plan marked 'Parking Plan' edged green."

Exceptions and Reservations
(e) "The right for the Landlord at any time upon reasonable notice to temporarily suspend or revoke the allocation of any parking space for the purposes of repair to any part of the adjoining road or for any reasonable other purpose. "

So nothing mentioning that a parking permit must be displayed as far as I can see. So I'm unsure why Gladstones would use this in their witness statement?

That lease is between the freeholder and leaseholder (your landlord). If the landlord permitted an occupier (you) to park by giving you a tenancy including parking without any requirement for a permit, then the freeholder/parking co's beef is with the landlord. In the absence of signs in the parking area or any paperwork they gave to you personally, there's no contract with you. 

Exactly the point I'm going to make in my WS. I'd never even heard of the individual listed as the Leaseholder nor even seen the underlease that they've supplied from 13 years ago!