:'( Help Needed - Uninhabitable Kitchen?! That I've lived in for almost a decade

nickhuge

Hi All

I'm really stuck. I just got refused for a remortgage with both Halifax (my original lender when purchasing the property) and Nationwide. I've managed to extend another 2 years with Santander but I have nowhere to go from here at the moment.

The feedback from eSurv was...

For a property to be considered suitable for a mortgage it must be habitable, therefore the kitchen must be contained within the habitable part - not a conservatory - of the dwelling. The choices here are to decline as it is not suitable as the property is not being habitable; to move the kitchen to the habitable part of the property; or upgrade the conservatory with building regulations approval to a habitable structure. The latter two will require a specification from a building surveyor or architect, as stated.

So I tried to book my own survey with eSurv so that they could come round and tell me exactly what I would need to do to get it up to these particular lenders expectations of what is a habitable room. They said they can't do that as their new home surveys are different to their mortgage surveys as they differ from lender to lender. Surely they should know? And to be clear, my conservatorey is on the 3rd floor, it's a beautiful room, my favourite in the house. Please see a photo below..

Is what eSurv is telling me correct? Surely building regulations interpretation for a habitable structure isn't different from bank to bank? This conservatory has been there for about 30 years. I think the only thing the previous owner did was move the oven. I'm basically trying to understand if moving the oven to what is now the utility space will mean it passes their mortgage check, or alternatively, what I need to do in regards to possibly bricking up the kitchen? Which would be a disaster as it's such an amazing room

Nick, Muswell Hill N10

ACG

I thought this was a wind up when you said the conservatory was on the third floor 

Every lender does have their own criteria, you could have the same surveyor value the property differently for 2 lenders - to the extent where it could be declined with one and accepted with another. 

This is not something I have ever come across before. In all honesty, I cant answer your question (it will be interesting to see fi any of the other brokers on here can). This is one of those things where if it hit my desk, I would be speaking to lenders before submitting any applications. You need to find a lender where it is within criteria. 

But if it is outside of building regs, you might struggle. 

born_again

Any help?

https://www.homelogic.co.uk/solved-is-a-conservatory-a-habitable-room

Many lenders are tightening their lending criteria. Some will not mortgage a property with a  EPG that are in the least efficient range.

housebuyer143

nickhuge said:

Hi All

I'm really stuck. I just got refused for a remortgage with both Halifax (my original lender when purchasing the property) and Nationwide. I've managed to extend another 2 years with Santander but I have nowhere to go from here at the moment.

The feedback from eSurv was...

For a property to be considered suitable for a mortgage it must be habitable, therefore the kitchen must be contained within the habitable part - not a conservatory - of the dwelling. The choices here are to decline as it is not suitable as the property is not being habitable; to move the kitchen to the habitable part of the property; or upgrade the conservatory with building regulations approval to a habitable structure. The latter two will require a specification from a building surveyor or architect, as stated.

So I tried to book my own survey with eSurv so that they could come round and tell me exactly what I would need to do to get it up to these particular lenders expectations of what is a habitable room. They said they can't do that as their new home surveys are different to their mortgage surveys as they differ from lender to lender. Surely they should know? And to be clear, my conservatorey is on the 3rd floor, it's a beautiful room, my favourite in the house. Please see a photo below..

Is what eSurv is telling me correct? Surely building regulations interpretation for a habitable structure isn't different from bank to bank? This conservatory has been there for about 30 years. I think the only thing the previous owner did was move the oven. I'm basically trying to understand if moving the oven to what is now the utility space will mean it passes their mortgage check, or alternatively, what I need to do in regards to possibly bricking up the kitchen? Which would be a disaster as it's such an amazing room

Nick, Muswell Hill N10

Does the conservatory have building regs approval? The problem is if it's a permitted development it is not allowed it's own drainage, connected heating etc, it's not allowed to be a habitable space. 
For a habitable space it might not be able to be consider such in its current form due to insulation etc. 

Van_Girl

Just to note, but esurv surveyors are not building surveyors, they are real estate surveyors and as such I wouldn't think that they have the insurance to provide design & specification advice

I believe that in order for a kitchen to be classed as such, it only needs a cooker and a functional sink - so moving these to the utility would should probably tick that box?

I suppose the other issue is if the conservatory is not separated from the main house by an outside door - because that wouldn't comply with current building regs - though, as it's been in place for 30 years, I'm not sure of it would have been compliant at the time?

nickhuge

So then the question comes to what do they mean "move the kitchen to the habitable part of the property". The only thing in that room I assume is the oven and it's associated gas supply? The rest of the appliances are in their own little corner in the brick part of the property but without a door leading to the conservatory. For instance if I swapped the cooker and the sink round, is that enough to satisfy the requirements? It's pretty impossible to know what to do here if they're not going to tell me.

nickhuge

I need something conclusive telling me if I move the fridge and the oven in to this area and have fitted untis (and the hib of course) does that mean it's now in a habitable part of the property. Or if I leave the sideboard where it is does that still classify it as a kitchen because food preparation is happening there? ie, simply chopping and plating stuff up. I've mailed Harringey's building regs email address and I imagine that's going to open up a while load of pain itself!

Van_Girl

Each lender will have specific criteria for how they classify a kitchen - check with them to see what this is. If it's just a sink, then you already have a kitchen in a habitable part of the house (utility), if it's a sink and cooker then you'll have to move the cooker there I guess. Or have a second cooker there

Other appliances and worktops don't really matter

housebuyer143

Just a thought but is that wording from ensurv the same comments your mortgage lender got?  because if so, that doesn't make mention of half the kitchen being in the main house so they are not going to know you have a sink in there already as the surveyor did not elaborate.

It might be the lenders who refused would consider a sink enough to be a kitchen but are not aware of the kitchen set up? Might be worth calling them to ask what they need as a minimum to be considered a kitchen and go from there?

nickhuge

Thanks guys. What is weird is that Halifax were fine with it in 2016 and suddenly not now in 2023. Made me wonder if building regs were changed in that time but I always thought that if they passed regs at the time, it was fine going forward even if new regs superceeded old ones. Bit like when house have a dormer which then were ruled out in future years in conservation areas. Man it's so annoying, but I appreciate your guidance. I've asked my advisor to contact the lender, I've contacted the council, and I'll look at hiring a building surveyor I guess rather than a real estate surveyor but I wonder if there was another way of getting lenders T&Cs in front of me relating to these aspects.

nickhuge

I wonder if replacing the roof for a slated version would help at all? or is it because its a PVC frame? arghhhh