Progress on house chains in England - estate agent updates or lack of updates??

HM0002

I'm after a bit of advice/ help as we are new to house buying in England, and we don't know what's normal in terms of estate agent updates and whether we should be pushing harder for more information, or just being more patient.

Our situation is as follows:
Currently living in Scotland and have sold my house (missives are completed which is similar I think to exchange of contracts in England). I have given my buyer a move in date and arranged to move in with a friend.

We are relocating to England and had an offer accepted on a house 5 weeks ago.
We put our mortgage application in immediately, and completed all the paperwork for the solicitor, but they haven't started searches and we haven't done the survey yet. (Although we are all ready to go with both)
We knew there was an onward chain. The vendor split up with his partner and he is looking to buy a different house (presumably downsizing).
The estate agent phoned me a week after we put in an offer to ask for an update on my house sale as the vendor had put in an offer on a house and they wanted details of the chain below. (She didn't entirely understand the Scottish system, so I talked her through that). She said that she expected him to hear back whether the offer had been accepted the next day and that she would update me.
A week later I had still not heard so I phoned, she seemed annoyed that I had called to chase and said that she thought the offer had been accepted, and she thought there was an onward chain. (But she was kind of vague about confirming either). She said that she would keep me updated.
So we decided to try to wait patiently for further updates. The next thing is that about three weeks after we put in our offer we started getting weekly automated chaser emails asking if we had started searches yet. (I'm also not entirely sure if these were meant to come to me or the solicitor because they were addressed to the solicitor by her first name) 
I replied to the first one explaining that we had completed the paperwork for the solicitors but not started searches yet and asking if there was any update on the chain and also requesting rough timetables to help us plan ahead. I didn't get a reply.

So we are starting to get really nervous and frustrated at the lack of any communication from the estate agent and about the fact that they are chasing us to start searches when they haven't confirmed if the chain is complete or even if the vendor definitely had his offer accepted.

There are actually lots of other properties on the market in the area that would be equally suitable, and we are now in a very strong position as my sale is already binding and once we move into my friends we will be chain free. So we could quite easily just find another house.

But we know that sales take time and we are likely to need to wait a bit whichever property we buy. Actually I think the waiting would be ok, if we were kept up to date, but being given zero information makes it really stressful.

Is this normal? Or have we just been unlucky in terms of the poor communication from the estate agent? And what should we do? I've been quite reluctant to pressure the estate agent too much because I didn't want to damage the relationship with them. But we are just currently feeling a bit stuck with it all. 

MikeJXE

Yes it's normal, buying and selling a home in England is extremely stressful 

Initially EA will concentrate on the chain making sure everyone has the funds and on the same page

Your solicitor may hold off doing searches until the chan is in place unless you tell them otherwise. 

If you want the property you need to hang in there as things don't happen very fast 

HM0002

Yes but shouldn't the estate agent actually let us know every couple of weeks or so what the progress is with the chain?

As I said it's not so much the waiting, it's the not being given any information about progress, or even just an email or call every once in a while to say, the onward chain is still not complete, but don't worry we're chasing and we'll keep you updated. That would give us some sort of confidence that they are at least on top of everything and doing their best to move things forward. It seems odd that they can't even confirm if the vendor's offer was accepted and whether his seller needs to find somewhere to buy or not? It's not like he put in his offer yesterday, it was 4 weeks ago. 

Extremely annoying when they don't even reply. 

Alter_ego

Estate agents in England work for their client - the vendor. So not much interest in other parts of the chain.

MikeJXE

I have bought and sold 10 homes in my lifetime and there is one thing I have learned

If you want something doing then the fastest way is do it yourself 

Once they know you are in place they won't update you unless you chase them 

An EA will fob you off to keep you on board as long as possible 

HM0002

This is all true, but if they were doing a good job of working for the vendor they would be doing a better job of keeping the buyer happy!

Properties are selling pretty slowly in the area we are looking and we put in a good offer. There is a good chance if we pulled out it would take him a long time to find another buyer and he may also not get as good an offer.

Whereas we are in a strong position, so could easily find another property if we pulled out. There are plenty of options, including one on the same street that has just come on the market that is very similar that is marketed for £20k less than we paid.

But we don't want to be the bad guys and let the seller down, we are happy to proceed, provided there is good communication to keep us updated.

Sounds like maybe I need to make this all clearer to the estate agent, so that they don't take us for granted!

eddddy

HM0002 said:

We knew there was an onward chain. The vendor split up with his partner and he is looking to buy a different house (presumably downsizing).

Is the house jointly owned? Do they both have to find new places to buy / live in?

Buying from separating couples can sometimes be difficult. For example, because one party blames the other for the break-up and losing their home, or one party doesn't think the split of proceeds is fair. So they try to sabotage the sale etc.

And/or there might be 2 onward chains.

HM0002 said:

A week later I had still not heard so I phoned, she seemed annoyed that I had called to chase and said that she thought the offer had been accepted, and she thought there was an onward chain. (But she was kind of vague about confirming either). She said that she would keep me updated.

Some estate agents are good at sales progression, some are bad. It sounds like you have a bad one.

It's very strange for an estate agent to be annoyed by your call. In your position, I'd suspect that is a defence mechanism.

I'd suspect that either the estate agent has messed something up, or they don't know what's happening - but rather than admitting it, they're acting annoyed to stop you chasing them.

MikeJXE

HM0002 said:

This is all true, but if they were doing a good job of working for the vendor they would be doing a better job of keeping the buyer happy!

Properties are selling pretty slowly in the area we are looking and we put in a good offer. There is a good chance if we pulled out it would take him a long time to find another buyer and he may also not get as good an offer.

Whereas we are in a strong position, so could easily find another property if we pulled out. There are plenty of options, including one on the same street that has just come on the market that is very similar that is marketed for £20k less than we paid.

But we don't want to be the bad guys and let the seller down, we are happy to proceed, provided there is good communication to keep us updated.

Sounds like maybe I need to make this all clearer to the estate agent, so that they don't take us for granted!

Sorry to say they are not working for you however you are in a good position to push although that may make no difference.

Like I said you are in place so the EA will concentrate on others in the chain

I wouldn't be concerned about being the bad guy, pulling out or not being able to complete happens all the time buying and selling.

England isn't like Scotland, you will be pulling your hair out, biting your nails until you cross the finishing line. 

You have the funds so maybe you need to find a property with no chain up or down to ease the stress 

HM0002

eddddy said:

HM0002 said:

We knew there was an onward chain. The vendor split up with his partner and he is looking to buy a different house (presumably downsizing).

Is the house jointly owned? Do they both have to find new places to buy / live in?

Buying from separating couples can sometimes be difficult. For example, because one party blames the other for the break-up and losing their home, or one party doesn't think the split of proceeds is fair. So they try to sabotage the sale etc.

And/or there might be 2 onward chains.

HM0002 said:

A week later I had still not heard so I phoned, she seemed annoyed that I had called to chase and said that she thought the offer had been accepted, and she thought there was an onward chain. (But she was kind of vague about confirming either). She said that she would keep me updated.

Some estate agents are good at sales progression, some are bad. It sounds like you have a bad one.

It's very strange for an estate agent to be annoyed by your call. In your position, I'd suspect that is a defence mechanism.

I'd suspect that either the estate agent has messed something up, or they don't know what's happening - but rather than admitting it, they're acting annoyed to stop you chasing them.

As far as we are aware, she has moved out and only he needs to find somewhere.

Also our offer was accepted very quickly which suggests that there isn't a lot of disagreement around selling.

Our experience suggests it's more likely the estate agents that are the problem here:

After we viewed the property we told them we were extremely interested but we had some queries. The estate agent dealing with the sale, went on leave and forgot to reply or update us before she did. So we had to chase. This could quite easily have lost them the sale, as this was our favourite property but we had also viewed two others we really liked.
They lost some of our information around proof of funds and had to ask for it again.
They send the memorandum of sale to my Scottish selling solicitor rather then the English one responsible for buying. Despite the fact that I gave them both in an email and explained which was which.
They lost the details of my selling solicitor and had to ask for them again.

Hardly all reassuring? So yes sounds like we picked an estate agent that are bad at both sales and progression. They get good reviews though, so we had such high hopes for them when we put in our offer!

HM0002

MikeJXE said:

HM0002 said:

This is all true, but if they were doing a good job of working for the vendor they would be doing a better job of keeping the buyer happy!

Properties are selling pretty slowly in the area we are looking and we put in a good offer. There is a good chance if we pulled out it would take him a long time to find another buyer and he may also not get as good an offer.

Whereas we are in a strong position, so could easily find another property if we pulled out. There are plenty of options, including one on the same street that has just come on the market that is very similar that is marketed for £20k less than we paid.

But we don't want to be the bad guys and let the seller down, we are happy to proceed, provided there is good communication to keep us updated.

Sounds like maybe I need to make this all clearer to the estate agent, so that they don't take us for granted!

Sorry to say they are not working for you however you are in a good position to push although that may make no difference.

Like I said you are in place so the EA will concentrate on others in the chain

I wouldn't be concerned about being the bad guy, pulling out or not being able to complete happens all the time buying and selling.

England isn't like Scotland, you will be pulling your hair out, biting your nails until you cross the finishing line. 

You have the funds so maybe you need to find a property with no chain up or down to ease the stress 

I wasn't suggesting that the estate agents were working for me, I am under no illusions that they are there to achieve the best deal for the seller, well and commission for themselves. And maybe in the sellers market of the past few years where sellers got multiple offers, could easily just remarket their house and get new offers, estate agents could just not worry about keeping buyers happy and updated. 

But I think that changes when it's very much a buyers market, houses are selling a lot slower and generally going for less than they were.

And yes it is tempting to just find somewhere chain free or at least with an estate agent that is better at sales progression and is going to keep us updated.

Tiglet2

HM0002 said:

eddddy said:

HM0002 said:

We knew there was an onward chain. The vendor split up with his partner and he is looking to buy a different house (presumably downsizing).

Is the house jointly owned? Do they both have to find new places to buy / live in?

Buying from separating couples can sometimes be difficult. For example, because one party blames the other for the break-up and losing their home, or one party doesn't think the split of proceeds is fair. So they try to sabotage the sale etc.

And/or there might be 2 onward chains.

HM0002 said:

A week later I had still not heard so I phoned, she seemed annoyed that I had called to chase and said that she thought the offer had been accepted, and she thought there was an onward chain. (But she was kind of vague about confirming either). She said that she would keep me updated.

Some estate agents are good at sales progression, some are bad. It sounds like you have a bad one.

It's very strange for an estate agent to be annoyed by your call. In your position, I'd suspect that is a defence mechanism.

I'd suspect that either the estate agent has messed something up, or they don't know what's happening - but rather than admitting it, they're acting annoyed to stop you chasing them.

As far as we are aware, she has moved out and only he needs to find somewhere.

Also our offer was accepted very quickly which suggests that there isn't a lot of disagreement around selling.

Our experience suggests it's more likely the estate agents that are the problem here:

After we viewed the property we told them we were extremely interested but we had some queries. The estate agent dealing with the sale, went on leave and forgot to reply or update us before she did. So we had to chase. This could quite easily have lost them the sale, as this was our favourite property but we had also viewed two others we really liked.
They lost some of our information around proof of funds and had to ask for it again.
They send the memorandum of sale to my Scottish selling solicitor rather then the English one responsible for buying. Despite the fact that I gave them both in an email and explained which was which.
They lost the details of my selling solicitor and had to ask for them again.

Hardly all reassuring? So yes sounds like we picked an estate agent that are bad at both sales and progression. They get good reviews though, so we had such high hopes for them when we put in our offer!

Has your English Solicitor now got a copy of the memorandum of sale, showing the correct details?
Has the vendor's Solicitor now got details of your English Solicitor, via the memorandum of sale showing the correct details?  You need to check that the EA have been writing to the correct party,

Both solicitors tend to send an initial letter of introduction to each other before the draft contract pack is sent by the seller's solicitor to your solicitor (EA to check they haven't sent letters/documents to the wrong solicitor). 

The sellers will also need to complete and return the Fixtures & Contents and Property Information Form, as these form part of the contract pack.  Has the vendor sent these back yet?  Both sellers will need to sign the documents and provide their ID and pass the AML checks.  

Your solicitor will probably not order any searches until they have received the draft contract pack.  The pack will contain title documents.  Searches are made according to the title number and although they can quite easily find out the title number, solicitors tend to wait for the draft contract pack to see exactly what is being sold to you, rather than look for and assume that the title number they have found is actually the correct one.  Maybe not pro-active, but many solicitors take this approach now.

Estate Agents usually have a sales progressor who can speak to all parties in the chain for progress reports, but they are not included in the legal work and so any information they find out is purely based on what someone tells them.  

As your vendor(s) are looking for separate properties to buy, it doesn't sound as though your chain is complete yet.  There really is no point for either solicitor to start much work yet (or you to start spending money on searches/surveys) as little progress can be made without a complete chain.