PIP renewal confusion

iklepig

Hello everyone,
The person I help support has received notice of their PIP renewal. 

The renewal forms were completed some time ago (returned early in the pandemic) and then they received a letter yesterday telling them they will be having a video (like zoom) consultation. Is this normal? Is this the post-pandemic way of doing things?

For a bit of background, the individual had a home visit last time their PIP was renewed (5 yrs ago) due to their conditions and difficulties. Due to their obvious distress, they were told it would be recommended not to need another face-to-face meeting at the next renewal - not even a home visit. Now they’ve had a letter saying it’s a video (zoom-like) consultation. Does this sound right to you all?

Does there seem any good reason why this is not being carried out as a paper-based assessment (loads of good evidence was sent in with the renewal form but due to the delays, I can accept that the evidence is now a little dated)

Also a potential concern I have is that if they go ahead with this video consultation (which I will be present at) we are concerned that an unscrupulous assessor may try to state that the individual has a computer, can use a computer, interact, uses the internet etc etc when this is not true. I will be setting up the computer and they will just be there for the assessment purpose. 

Ideally I feel it should be a paper assessment. A video assessment is obviously better than a home visit or even me having to get them to a centre to be assessed but I still think paper would be better. Can I do anything about this? Can I insist on a paper assessment? 

The letter received does say that if you haven’t got a computer/internet to let them know but I don’t really want to say that because (a) it’s untrue - I have a computer( (not the individual) and (b) if they don’t have a video consultation, are they going to insist on a centre face-to-face assessment which will be intolerable for the individual. 

Any advice or reassurance please?

Newcad

Many assessments are now done by telephone, and some by video.

Bear in mind that it's a while since the forms were sent in and so this 'consultation' may simply be to clarify that what was on the renewal form is still correct and nothing has changed, and maybe to clarify a few points from the form..

It's something that was being though about for a number of years, Covid stopped Face-to-Face assessments and so accelerated trials of both telephone and then video assessments and showed that they can reasonably be done.

For many claimants a telephone or video assessment is preferable to travelling for Face-to-Face appointments at a centre.

There are some concerns about how thorough such telephone/video assessments can be, but there were previously much the same concerns about F2F's so it's not that big a change in that respect.
Of course telephone or video is not suitable, or even possible, in some cases.

It might help to think of a telephone/video assessment as a 'home visit' but without someone having to physically come to your home.
The fact that it's all at arms length (or phone/internets length) could even make it less distressing for the claimant.

You could contact the assessment providers and explain that it was recommended last time that all future assessments should be paper based, and why that recommendation was made. ie. claimant distress, and so a paper only assessment would be preferable for the claimant.
But you have to bear in mind that it was only a 'recommendation' and they don't have to follow it.

PS Just to show how technology is changing things - I'm Limited Capability for Work and  had my 3-monthly Work Focused Interview at the Jobcentre last Friday. It was suggested there that if I like I could do future ones by video call rather than having to travel to the Jobcentre every 3 months.
Now that it's been shown (ironically by Covid) that that telephone and video calling can work with benefits we can expect to see them being used more often wherever they can be.

poppy12345

Home assessments no longer exist, telephone/video calls have replaced them. Most people have assessments, paper based are rare but do still happen.

Alice_Holt

As poppy says telephone / video are the now the norm.

In your friend's case it sounds like a video will be more appropriate than a telephone assessment.

As well as explaining that you have set the call up, and your friend could not do this without your help. I might mention (if it applies) the chronic, continuing, and severe impact of the disability, to see if a longer award is possible this time.

What was put on the PIP form about potential difficulties with the assessment?

iklepig

Thank you for commenting on this. The situation has moved on a little and I’d like further advice please. 

I contacted the assessors on my friend’s behalf explaining the difficulties of a video consultation and the surprise at it not being a paper-based assessment given what was said at the last assessment and given what was stated on the review form & attached evidence. The person on the phone told me to send in up-to-date evidence and a covering note asking them to reconsider a paper-based assessment. As the video consultation was imminent, they said cancel that appointment and make it as far into the future as allowed to give us time to send in the extra info and for them to decide if they can do a paper based assessment. The person said the video consultation will probably not need to go ahead. 

Contacted the assessors this week to check they’d received the extra info (all up-to-date, relevant and detailed) and asked if they’d made a decision on whether to do a paper-based assessment. A different person answered and they confirmed they had received the info but said they can’t consider a paper-based assessment because the video appointment had been changed and they can only do one change. Obviously I explained we had done what we’d been told. No movement. 

I said I felt we’d been misinformed in the last call & they said put in a complaint but the complaint won’t be dealt with before the video consultation date. I asked what should be done and was told that my friend shouldn’t attend the video consultation and it’ll be considered a “no show” and send back to the DWP. Then contact the DWP 48 hours later and explain I’d been told they’d consider a paper-based with further info but we were misinformed that this could be done. 

I asked whether my friend’s PIP would be stopped due to a “no show” and was told it shouldn’t because we’d been misinformed about the process. 

Does this sound right????
I think not showing up sounds a little risky. We WERE misinformed but to just be a “no show” seems like the perfect excuse for the DWP to stop my friends PIP money. My friend would really struggle with a video consultation and I think they should do a paper based assessment - we were told they’d consider it if info was sent in. Info was sent in. Shouldn’t they honour that?

Can you please advise what to do? My friend cannot afford to lose the PIP. 

poppy12345

iklepig said:

 they confirmed they had received the info but said they can’t consider a paper-based assessment because the video appointment had been changed and they can only do one change. Obviously I explained we had done what we’d been told. No movement.

That makes no sense because if they have enough of information to do the paper based assessment then no video assessment will be needed. However, if there's not enough of evidence to do the paper based assessment the the assessment will be needed.

If the file is returned to DWP then yes their PIP could stop for failing to attend.

iklepig

poppy12345 said:

iklepig said:

 they confirmed they had received the info but said they can’t consider a paper-based assessment because the video appointment had been changed and they can only do one change. Obviously I explained we had done what we’d been told. No movement.

That makes no sense because if they have enough of information to do the paper based assessment then no video assessment will be needed. However, if there's not enough of evidence to do the paper based assessment the the assessment will be needed.

If the file is returned to DWP then yes their PIP could stop for failing to attend.

That’s what we think! This situation is utterly ludicrous. Surely if they now have enough evidence now to do a paper based assessment then they should just do one and cancel the video assessment. 

Nobody seems to be able to see sense. 

I’ve come to the conclusion that nobody cares. The distress and upset caused to vulnerable people is meaningless. Making my friend distressed and upset about a video consultation will make their health worse and is only going to push them further away from the workplace. In reality they are highly unlikely to ever work again so all this causing of distress is just imposing cruelty. What a world we live in. 

If they fail to attend the video consultation, what is considered by the DWP as a reasonable excuse for being a “no show”?

Alice_Holt

Personally, I'd attend the video assessment with your friend, I wouldn't risk PIP stopping because of this confusion.

I'd carefully document dates / times of calls, who you spoke to in case a compliant / MR becomes necessary. 

Newcad

You have to remember that the people you talk to on the phone are poorly trained, mostly reading 'stock' answers from a script, and have no real clue as to what is happening with your case other than what they can read off their screen.

Unfortunately because of that, vague, inaccurate, and often conflicting, advice from them is the norm.

All you can do at this stage is to presume that the video appointment is going to happen, and prepare accordingly.
In the end it may or may not happen - but a phone-jockey won't be able to tell you that, the decision is above their function.

sammyjammy

It may be worth trying to speak to DWP about the situation now and what the assessors have said to you, you might need to push for advice from them but they should be able to confirm what will happen and whether the story of not being able to do more than one change is correct.