Problem with new combi boiler

grumbler

arciere said:

For now, I guess the only option is to keep the boiler on just for hot water and wait until before next winter to fix that pipe...

... or look for another plumber.  £2K per day is outrageous. 
However, like I said, very little changes in a pressurised system when the pump starts working - unless there is some blockage in the pipes.
If the leak is really small you can try adding some CH leak sealer to the system.

macman

90% of the job is diagnosing and locating the fault, Once he's done that, and can see the leak, how can he possibly justify that price?
As above, try a can of leak inhibitor first.

plumb1_2

Think he’s priced you £2k plus vat, so you don’t ask him back and get someone cheaper .
£2k a day is a rip off imo.

ThisIsWeird

arciere said:

So after all it was a pipe leak, although even the plumber said it was strange.
The pressure never went above 1.6 bars. Left overnight at 1.5 and in the morning it stayed at 1.5. As soon as you turn on the heating, it gradually drops to 0.0.

Downstairs neighbours saw a tiny patch of wet floor inside a cupboard. Called the plumber back, he spotted a pipe with a plastic joint that was very slowly dripping (1 drop every couple of minutes or so).

Long story short, cut some wall panels, downstairs ceiling, but he couldn't reach the pipe. He left after 4 hours or so saying that he needs more time and more digging/cutting. Quoted for around £2,000 plus VAT for a day of work (plus materials), which is something that we definitely can't afford right now, after the boiler replacement.

For now, I guess the only option is to keep the boiler on just for hot water and wait until before next winter to fix that pipe...

Lawdie, where to start...

The £2k sounds initially expensive, but presumably it involves making good a lot of structure, the full extent of the damage not even having been reached yet?! It'll need repairs to the neighb's ceiling, your panelling, plastering, painting, many hours of labour to access and repair the leak, just a lot of work by the sounds of it. And, you cannot just leave this potential drip - you will have been negligent, and therefore personally liable, if it causes further damage since you now know about it.

It's a strange leak, but I guess plastic push-fits could demonstrate this sort of behaviour as they seal using rubber O-rings, and a faulty or damaged one could be deflected (eg, a split opened) by a certain pressure, whereas you wouldn't expect this behaviour from a solder or brass fitting; they tend to just leak or not leak.

The cold pressure of your system should ideally be around 1 bar, and this shouldn't rise significantly when hot. I wonder if your previous boiler was better at keeping a low pressure? Or was it even a 'vented' type, fed from a F&E tank in the loft - these work on fractions of one bar, so are less likely to expose leaks.

plumb1_2

ThisIsWeird said:

.arciere said:

Long story short, cut some wall panels, downstairs ceiling, but he couldn't reach the pipe. He left after 4 hours or so saying that he needs more time and more digging/cutting. Quoted for around £2,000 plus VAT for a day of work (plus materials), which is something that we definitely can't afford right now, after the boiler replacement.

Lawdie, where to start...

The £2k sounds initially expensive, but presumably it involves making good a lot of structure, the full extent of the damage not even having been reached yet?! It'll need repairs to the neighb's ceiling, your panelling, plastering, painting, many hours of labour to access and repair the leak, just a lot of work by the sounds of it. And, you cannot just leave this potential drip - if it causes further damage, you will have been negligent, since you know about it.

He’s charging £2400 for a day’s work, plus materials. Outrageous!

I agree on it can’t be left, as will slowly cause more damage. 

ThisIsWeird

plumb1_2 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

.arciere said:

Long story short, cut some wall panels, downstairs ceiling, but he couldn't reach the pipe. He left after 4 hours or so saying that he needs more time and more digging/cutting. Quoted for around £2,000 plus VAT for a day of work (plus materials), which is something that we definitely can't afford right now, after the boiler replacement.

Lawdie, where to start...

The £2k sounds initially expensive, but presumably it involves making good a lot of structure, the full extent of the damage not even having been reached yet?! It'll need repairs to the neighb's ceiling, your panelling, plastering, painting, many hours of labour to access and repair the leak, just a lot of work by the sounds of it. And, you cannot just leave this potential drip - if it causes further damage, you will have been negligent, since you know about it.

He’s charging £2400 for a day’s work, plus materials. Outrageous!

I agree on it can’t be left, as will slowly cause more damage. 

We don't quite know yet, I don't think. Is this plumber quoting for his plasterer mate, a P&D, and possibly even a chippy? I mean, what would a total insurance claim amount to? It's no longer just a 'plumbing' job. Gulp, I hope.

arciere

So this is what happened:
Old boiler failed, new boiler installed. This also required some relatively minor works, like a new hole in the wall to align the external pipe to the new boiler (please excuse my terminology). Boiler pressurised and pressure kept on going down after several top-ups.
Neighbours saw a tiny patch of wet floor inside a cupboard. Since they are far from the nicest neighbours someone could ask for, I asked the plumber to attend again (it was 6pm, so additional fees). He spent one hour trying to find where the leak was coming from and another 3 hours trying to make holes here and there, to see if he could 'tighten' the push-fit plastic joint.
Eventually, he left saying that there was nothing he could do, so he isolated the heating and only left the boiler for hot water (I obviously agreed). Note that this 4-hour visit was paid on the spot.

His proposed fix was to cut even further, potentially replace the pipe (it is a relatively short pipe from the boiler to the joint, probably 1m) and quoted for 1 day, around 2k (plus this and that), plus the cost to repair tiles and holes (which 'won't be that expensive'), a job that one of his colleagues would do.

So I'm having more plumbers to come around and check, but given that this is not my area of expertise (I mean, I do know how to replace a push-fit connector, but...), I don't know what to expect.

ThisIsWeird

arciere said:

So this is what happened:
Old boiler failed, new boiler installed. This also required some relatively minor works, like a new hole in the wall to align the external pipe to the new boiler (please excuse my terminology). Boiler pressurised and pressure kept on going down after several top-ups.
Neighbours saw a tiny patch of wet floor inside a cupboard. Since they are far from the nicest neighbours someone could ask for, I asked the plumber to attend again (it was 6pm, so additional fees). He spent one hour trying to find where the leak was coming from and another 3 hours trying to make holes here and there, to see if he could 'tighten' the push-fit plastic joint.
Eventually, he left saying that there was nothing he could do, so he isolated the heating and only left the boiler for hot water (I obviously agreed). Note that this 4-hour visit was paid on the spot.

His proposed fix was to cut even further, potentially replace the pipe (it is a relatively short pipe from the boiler to the joint, probably 1m) and quoted for 1 day, around 2k (plus this and that), plus the cost to repair tiles and holes (which 'won't be that expensive'), a job that one of his colleagues would do.

So I'm having more plumbers to come around and check, but given that this is not my area of expertise (I mean, I do know how to replace a push-fit connector, but...), I don't know what to expect.

Thanks for the clarification. In that case, it sounds like what someone else said - it's this plumber's way of saying 'I don't want the job'. That's very poor form.

Could you post photos of what he's done, and where the pipe is located? The cost of this repair is seemingly going to come down to access, since replacing an actual push-fit is, as you know, a very cheap and simple task. 

Can you trace this pipe in both directions from where the leak is? I wonder if a new length of plastic (so, flexible) pipe can be slipped in alongside the existing, and then swapped over at each end? 

Who will make good any damage to the flat below? What damage is there?

arciere

The space is really tight, so you do need to open up (unless you can fix the issue without removing any joints/pipes).
This is the place, with the two holes (front and right side):


This is the pipe:



This is the hole downstairs. Damage has been only a tiny patch of wet floor inside the cupboard:

plumb1_2

So how much did he charge you for the 4 hrs work ?

Is the pipe in the front or rear adjacent to the wc section of boxing in?
If it was opened up more he might be able to cut the pipe with a pipe slice and the same below and put new plastic pipe in. ( more flexibility).
But £2k plus materials,plus cost for others to make good, owt like the plumber it’ll be another £2k?

Have got building insurance?