Developer requires extensive access to our land (general advice welcome and wanted)

NicolaDod

Hi all,

I am a leaseholder in a converted house making up four flats. The garden (originally ~10m x 30m) has been split into four sections for each flat, plus a back section ~10m x 10m that the freeholder retained. All gardens are accessed from the street via a standard walkway ~0.8m wide running down the side of the building.

The freeholder sold the back plot of land with planning permission granted to build a bungalow. We four leaseholders have since collectively purchased the freehold for the remaining land (including the side path, which has access granted to the back plot owner.)

Planning permissions run out in two months' time, so the new developer is keen to start building. However, the following issues still stand:
- They need to build a bungalow where the only means of access to and from the plot is a metre wide side path (which three of us use to access our homes)
- They will need to put a skip and porta-loo on the front drive (specifically, on my lease agreed parking spot, I don't have a car at the moment.)
- They will need to use our outdoor communal tap for water during the build
- They will need to dig up our path to connect pipes to the plot and may need to anchor power lines to our building
- Planning permission requires a bin and bike store to be placed at the front of the building (again currently marked out on my parking spot on the drive)
- Planning permission requires them to place a gate at the front of the path which would come before our main door.
Building hasn't started yet but I managed to speak to the builders scoping the job and they estimate it will take six to eight months 

My question is, what would you do in our position?
- Agree to most of the points and draw up an agreement to get some form of payment for all of the disruptions
- Flat-out no to everything
- Something else? e.g. we're considering hiring a legal advisor before making a decision, but having just purchased the freehold we don't want to spend too much

Have you been in a situation where you denied, or were denied by, a neighbour? And was the final outcome worse for the land owning party as a result?

Appreciate the post is quite fluffy, but I'd like to get outside opinions to ensure that I'm taking a measured, wholistic view. I'm nervous that saying yes/no will result in a scenario I didn't have the foresight to think of and will place us in a much worse-off position.

Thanks in advance for any opinions at all on this.

Brie

Are you willing to give away your land for free?  Because if they build a bike safe on your parking spot that's what you are doing.  Consider how that affects the resale value of your property.

If the path is dug up how do you get into your homes?  

Are they going to pay for the water they use?  And the charge for water waste as well??

How easy is it for them to remove/empty both the skip and loo??  Are those directly in front of someone's windows?  (eww!!! during the summer???)

What equipment are they going to want to get along the narrow path?  Can't imagine there's too many diggers that slim.

What agreements are being made about working hours, noise etc?  They might be ok starting work at 8 am M-F but that means some workers will be there 7:30 - is that ok?  What time will they be finished?  5 pm?  Even when it's mid summer and it's light til 10?  Will they be working Saturdays or Sundays?  What if someone shows up and starts outside of agreed times?

And what's between you and the work?  Not sure how your gardens are divided up but if I had a back bit and there was construction work happening immediately the other side of an imaginary line I wouldn't be happy.  This might effect some of you more than others.

I'm not saying you say no but I wouldn't be doing any of this without legal guidance.  Advice and suggestions from here are fine but you need more.

theoretica

NicolaDod said:

Planning permissions run out in two months' time, so the new developer is keen to start building. However, the following issues still stand:
- They need to build a bungalow where the only means of access to and from the plot is a metre wide side path (which three of us use to access our homes)  A challenge for them - they will of course need to maintain access for you at all times (including for bins and bikes, safe for children or just for adults?)  Possibly talk to your insurers before they start - are you covered for both accidents and unforseen?  Including minor things like a scaffolding board chipping the house.
- They will need to put a skip and porta-loo on the front drive (specifically, on my lease agreed parking spot, I don't have a car at the moment.)  No - they will want to do this, not need - they would presumably manage to build somehow if that space did not exist.  What are they offering you?- They will need to use our outdoor communal tap for water during the build  As above - a want, not a need.
- They will need to dig up our path to connect pipes to the plot and may need to anchor power lines to our building Worth finding out about pipes, power and their plans - might be best if everything went underground.  Would they be upgrading anything that affects you?- Planning permission requires a bin and bike store to be placed at the front of the building (again currently marked out on my parking spot on the drive)  Well, there they have a problem if planning permission requires something not on their land.  Might be worth talking to the planning officer about the issue of work starting which does not have the required rights to meet planning requirements. 
- Planning permission requires them to place a gate at the front of the path which would come before our main door.  As above - with aspects of do you want a gate?

My thoughts in bold.

If they have been portraying as 'needs' their various demands for things like water and skip space on your land rather than asking nicely and offering to make it worth your while then they would have lost a considerable portion of my goodwill.

I would want to find out from the council planning officer what happens if they cannot provide the bike store, bin store and gate as they are not on their land.

Jonboy_1984

Does anything in your collective freehold purchase compel you to have to cooperate with any of this?

I.e. were there any conditions that you had to provide access to a developer of that patch of land.

There is no way I would give up an allocated parking space long term if it was in the lease. Simply having communal wheelie bins placed on some spaces at our previous flat caused enough tension…

NicolaDod

Thanks, Brie! super helpful points

Brie said:

Are you willing to give away your land for free?  Because if they build a bike safe on your parking spot that's what you are doing.  Consider how that affects the resale value of your property.

   Yes it's a very good point about resale value, The bike store and bins a a definite no, no matter the amount they would pay

If the path is dug up how do you get into your homes?  

The developer has said that they will ensure that the path is made walkable by the end of each day, but the developer is likely to say anything to not lose out on this investment and we can't predict what time of day we'll need to exit/enter for the next 6-8 months

Are they going to pay for the water they use?  And the charge for water waste as well??

Yes, the developer said they would pay and access to the mains lever is inside our building so they cannot physically use it without our say so.

How easy is it for them to remove/empty both the skip and loo??  Are those directly in front of someone's windows?  (eww!!! during the summer???)

It's a very good point, the skip and loo would be directly outside a bedroom, so we'll need to find out how regularly it will be removed and emptied 

What equipment are they going to want to get along the narrow path?  Can't imagine there's too many diggers that slim.

When doing the pre-build excavating the land they did manage to get a micro-digger down the path (but I think they secretly took our hose wheel off of the wall to do it) but yes that's probably why the time to build is so long.

What agreements are being made about working hours, noise etc?  They might be ok starting work at 8 am M-F but that means some workers will be there 7:30 - is that ok?  What time will they be finished?  5 pm?  Even when it's mid summer and it's light til 10?  Will they be working Saturdays or Sundays?  What if someone shows up and starts outside of agreed times?

Yes these are all questions we'll need to have a meeting with the developer over. The builders were very forthcoming in telling it would be a very noisy and messy job three of us work from home 

And what's between you and the work?  Not sure how your gardens are divided up but if I had a back bit and there was construction work happening immediately the other side of an imaginary line I wouldn't be happy.  This might effect some of you more than others.

The gardens are each fenced off so we wouldn't see the works from our gardens, but yes there's only a 6ft high fence separating the closest garden from a major building site which may not be safe. 

I'm not saying you say no but I wouldn't be doing any of this without legal guidance.  Advice and suggestions from here are fine but you need more.

Thanks, yes it does sound like we will need some professional advice as there's a lot to consider here.

molerat

Sorry but my reply to their requests would be the same as given in Arkell v Pressdram.

Doozergirl

Jonboy_1984 said:

Does anything in your collective freehold purchase compel you to have to cooperate with any of this?

I.e. were there any conditions that you had to provide access to a developer of that patch of land.

There is no way I would give up an allocated parking space long term if it was in the lease. Simply having communal wheelie bins placed on some spaces at our previous flat caused enough tension…

This. 

I'm much more interested in what your actual legal obligations are here, if you own the freehold of what is left.

There is probably more that they can't do than they can.   Is this bungalow always going to accessed by a metre wide path?

I'd tell the developer that you need some paid legal advice and they need to pay for it...  

NicolaDod

Thank you, theoretica!

theoretica said:

NicolaDod said:

Planning permissions run out in two months' time, so the new developer is keen to start building. However, the following issues still stand:
- They need to build a bungalow where the only means of access to and from the plot is a metre wide side path (which three of us use to access our homes)  A challenge for them - they will of course need to maintain access for you at all times (including for bins and bikes, safe for children or just for adults?)  Possibly talk to your insurers before they start - are you covered for both accidents and unforseen?  Including minor things like a scaffolding board chipping the house.

Yes this is a really good point, we'll need to check the extent of their insurance to make sure no damage costs fall to us find out any grey areas that aren't covered by either side.

- They will need to put a skip and porta-loo on the front drive (specifically, on my lease agreed parking spot, I don't have a car at the moment.)  No - they will want to do this, not need - they would presumably manage to build somehow if that space did not exist.  What are they offering you?

It's true it's a want not a need and the developer hasn't offered anything but a (very flippant) suggestion that I can park on the street if I need to, as it's free...

- They will need to dig up our path to connect pipes to the plot and may need to anchor power lines to our building Worth finding out about pipes, power and their plans - might be best if everything went underground.  Would they be upgrading anything that affects you?

Another good point, we will probably need to consider a contingency plan for the likely event that new developments are discovered during the build. This is my biggest concern as I've read that when a build is far enough, the council's preference will be for it to be completed which may mean work arounds that don't benefit us.

- Planning permission requires a bin and bike store to be placed at the front of the building (again currently marked out on my parking spot on the drive)  Well, there they have a problem if planning permission requires something not on their land.  Might be worth talking to the planning officer about the issue of work starting which does not have the required rights to meet planning requirements.

Yes this is probably the biggest issue for them as there's really no other way to access the street and therefore no way for them to have bins collected without essentially leaving them on our property. That's not me defending their plan, just accepting that it will throw a large spanner in the works if I say no.

- Planning permission requires them to place a gate at the front of the path which would come before our main door.  As above - with aspects of do you want a gate?

We definitely don't want the gate to be where it's proposed as we become reliant on a third party for access to our own front door, it also poses complications over who pays to maintain it. Our door is already pretty hard to spot as the face of the building looks like standard house (one flat owner has a grand front door), so adding a side gate will make it even harder to locate. We're okay with a gate being placed right to the back of the path.

Great points - thank you for your time!

NicolaDod

Jonboy_1984 said:

Does anything in your collective freehold purchase compel you to have to cooperate with any of this?

I.e. were there any conditions that you had to provide access to a developer of that patch of land.

There is no way I would give up an allocated parking space long term if it was in the lease. Simply having communal wheelie bins placed on some spaces at our previous flat caused enough tension…

There were no conditions on the purchase of the freehold, but I think that the easements were granted prior to the purchase as I can see reference to them in the plot of land's registry. I've sent off a form to obtain it (probably a mistake on our solicitor's part not having this, but the freehold purchase was a bit long and messy.) 

NicolaDod

Doozergirl said:

Jonboy_1984 said:

Does anything in your collective freehold purchase compel you to have to cooperate with any of this?

I.e. were there any conditions that you had to provide access to a developer of that patch of land.

There is no way I would give up an allocated parking space long term if it was in the lease. Simply having communal wheelie bins placed on some spaces at our previous flat caused enough tension…

This. 

I'm much more interested in what your actual legal obligations are here, if you own the freehold of what is left.

There is probably more that they can't do than they can.   Is this bungalow always going to accessed by a metre wide path?

I'd tell the developer that you need some paid legal advice and they need to pay for it...  

This is a great idea, I hadn't thought of this! 

theoretica

NicolaDod said:

It's true it's a want not a need and the developer hasn't offered anything but a (very flippant) suggestion that I can park on the street if I need to, as it's free...

Parking may be free on the street, but worth knowing that putting the skip on the street probably wouldn't be free (may well be more for a loo?)... so I think they are trying to take advantage there.

https://www.skipsandbins.com/a-guide-to-skip-permits/