Buying state pension years

HeparGirl24

My partner had his state pension forecast 18 months ago showing he has 29 qualifying years.  Now he is 64 he was going to start buying Class 3 contributions for the 6 missing years but he's been told very recently by an expat that as he worked self-employed when we lived in Europe between 2010 and 2014, he can buy Class 2 contributions for those years instead.  This is obviously much cheaper if true.  We went through the whole process of the Future Pensions Forecast, then HMRC and they never mentioned it. They were aware we had lived in Europe previously.  Before he starts paying the Class 3 does anyone know if it is true about being self employed in Europe as I don't want to go through the whole helpline business again, bearing in mind how busy it is now, to find it is only heresay.

molerat

Yes he should be able to pay class 2 for those years. If he has spoken to the FPC and confirmed those particular years will add to his pension, pre 2016 years do not always add value, he would need to speak to HMRC about buying them and would need full details of his overseas employment / self employment to hand.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-security-abroad-ni38

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Does he actually know 6 years are required?

As he's under transitional rules 35 years are usually irrelevant.

xylophone

I'd suggest he gets a new forecast.

What exactly does it show as to the estimate at 5/4/22?

How many pre 6/4/2016 years does he have?

And post 6/4/2016?

And when exactly does he reach SPA?

p00hsticks

HeparGirl24 said:

My partner had his state pension forecast 18 months ago showing he has 29 qualifying years.

What exactly did that forecast say (or can he easily get an up to date one). ?
If you can post up the following info people will be able to say if it's really six years that he needs and if those pre-2016 years will add value

• What amount you are forecast to get
• What amount you have accrued so far, and up to April in which year ?
• How many years going forward are still available until you reach state Pension age 
• Whether there are any gaps in your NI record available to fill
• What years are not full  
• How many full NI years you have prior to April 2016
• How many full years NI years you have after April 2016
• Is there is a COPE figure mentioned and if so what is it 

 

HeparGirl24

Sorry.  I didn't make it clear.

He retires in March 2025 at age 66.  He will have 29 qualifying years then.  
He has full qualifying years from 1976 to 2005
Then it gets a bit complicated.
We went to live abroad in January 2006. 
I worked full time, he was classed as inactive until January 2008 when he got a temporary full time salaried contract for 2 years. When that ended, at the beginning of 2010 he registered as self employed in France until the end of 2014 when we returned to the UK.
Because he had been self employed he was not entitled to unemployment or other benefits in the UK, so no qualifying years were added.
We moved abroad again for my work in 2016.  He was again classed as inactive.
We returned for good in 2019 and he has been inactive since, so basically no qualifying years have been added since 2005.

HeparGirl24

The FPC originally told us that his work in France didn't make any difference as he already met the 10 years qualifying period for a UK pension and so the pension would be paid pro rata at 29/35ths unless he bought the extra years.

pinnks

HeparGirl24 said:

Sorry.  I didn't make it clear.

He retires in March 2025 at age 66.  He will have 29 qualifying years then.  
He has full qualifying years from 1976 to 2005
Then it gets a bit complicated.
We went to live abroad in January 2006. 
I worked full time, he was classed as inactive until January 2008 when he got a temporary full time salaried contract for 2 years. When that ended, at the beginning of 2010 he registered as self employed in France until the end of 2014 when we returned to the UK.
Because he had been self employed he was not entitled to unemployment or other benefits in the UK, so no qualifying years were added.
We moved abroad again for my work in 2016.  He was again classed as inactive.
We returned for good in 2019 and he has been inactive since, so basically no qualifying years have been added since 2005.

It sounds as though he will be able to pay either Class 2 or Class 3 for the years in France, though as you say it is a little complicated.  HMRC will opine on that.  If you were still non-resident HMRC would require a CF83 (at the end of the NI38), ticking box 25 to show you want to fill old years.  They will the provide a schedule of years and amounts.  I think I would be minded to use that form with a covering letter.  As long as HMRC has that before 31 July your position will be protected based on what they have said on their customer forum.

FPC is correct that from the UK perspective the years in France will have no impact.  All they could do is help you achieve 10 UK years, so as you already have more than 10 you can ignore the EU rules on aggregation and pro-rata benefits and focus on how to get as close to the UK max as possible.

In France, the EU rules may or may not help.  They will undertake 2 calculations and award the higher amount as a French pension:
1.  the amount you would receive based solely on your French contribution record (Independent Benefit)

2. a "theoretical amount" arrived at by assuming all of your contributions were in France (counting overlapping periods only once) and applying the French rules to that.  This is then pro-rated based on your actual French contribution record (Pro-rata Benefit)

You will end up with two pension. One from France and one from the UK.

xylophone

Is he able to get an up to date forecast here?

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

And could you give the information requested above?

HeparGirl24

He has a tiny French pension of 135€ a year, awarded when he was 62. Although they counted the UK qualifying years to meet the 10 year qualifying period, France only counted his 2 years salaried work for their pro rata calculation as he did not meet the minimum income when he was self employed to qualify for their "trimestres". Which is why getting a full UK one is so important.

xylophone

 Which is why getting a full UK one is so important.

Could you check his up to date forecast and give the information requested above?