20 minute cities

Simulacraton

Not sure if this is the correct forum, sorry if not!

So, people are starting to become aware of the plans that have been in process for some time now, to limit private car use in cities by creating zones that you can only go into a number of times a year. They are called 15 or 20 minute cities as that is how long it will take you to walk or cycle somewhere to get everything you need. The idea is it will discourage car use, creating greener inner city areas and making people exercise. For some, this won't really affect them as they don't drive or need to go to places of work or pick up kids etc. For others who go over their allotted travel limit they will be fined. Monitoring will be done by NPR cameras.

For those that have no choice the response is to use longer routes on ring roads or motorways, which will obviously lead to higher carbon emissions but as it is not in the city the Council can say they are closer to a 'net-zero' environment. Great logic.

So, whether you agree with the plans or not, it's obvious there will be many people who will get fined, most of whom will just pay up without investigating in detail the compliance of any issued fine. However, we here are not most people and so I was wondering if anyone had started to look into this matter?

I've requested the traffic regulation orders for all the zones in the LTN/ULEZ for Oxford to see how they are operating this new system. Unless this pilot scheme is outside the limits of a traditional TRO, it should reveal some interesting information.

Any input here?

daveyjp

Imagine living somewhere with supermarkets, doctors, dentist, mechanics, car showroom, petrol stations, car wash, joiners workshop, glazier, plumbers, tool hire, gym, swimming pool, sports stadia, golf course, metal fabricator, electrician and alarm installer, vets, food takeways, pubs, station, bus stop, ambulance, fire, police station, library, places of worship, parks, schools, college, university all within 15 minutes.

Oh no, that's like where I live, were doomed.

fisherjim

Soon there will be tumbleweed rolling down every city centre street and the only vehicles on the roads will be Amazon and Ocado etc while ex shop workers claim benefits and the rest of us walk around in ill fitting clothes bought on line.

The good news is PPC's will be going out of business, though in all honesty my nearest city is Exeter and two visits a year is too much.

mr_stripey

reducing car use and increasing walking is a good idea. If the local infastructure will support it then it's got to be a good thing.

I can't find any credible evidence that there will be an "alloted travel limit" or people getting fined. Have you got any evidence that says so?

devoncop22

Thankfully I am in a very rural area in north Northumberland. My very limited desire ever to travel to Newcastle has just entered negative levels :-)

Phantom151

I don't see the problem. It's a good idea. Air quality in town centres is horrific so keeping most cars out can only be a plus. Parking on the edge of these zones and walking in will be much more pleasant for everyone. Blue badge holders will be exempt I would think. Pedestrianised roads and outside seating for cafes and restaurants could be implemented too. Admittedly, it isn't great in this weather but if you look around Europe, there are plenty of places that mitigate weather for a more outside experience. Works quite well.

Crawling through a town centre pollutes a lot more than driving efficiently around it so it makes sense to try and do that.

Very few would need to drive but we are generally a lazy lot.

Our little market town already has a few things in place. No parking in the middle of the place for a start, it's all around the outside and a minute or two walk gets you in. You can still drive through but it is always easier to go down the bypass. It is a very pleasant place to spend a few hours of your day.

Phantom151

mr_stripey said:

I can't find any credible evidence that there will be an "alloted travel limit" or people getting fined. Have you got any evidence that says so?

Some of the more loony 'muh freedom' crowd have come up with this. It isn't mentioned anywhere else.

devoncop22

Yes..... imagine the cheek of folk wanting to be able to drive on roads they already pay excise license on or wanting to drive to facilities like libraries that they already pay council tax for.

As a wise man once said..."Everywhere people are taking liberties, and those liberties were once yours".

Simulacraton

The concept of reducing unnecessary car use, making a more pleasant environment, encouraging people to walk or cycle and help with the obesity crisis is something I agree with. I literally watch people in my road driving to collect their able-bodied kids a quarter of a mile away from school in fine weather, or drop them off, leading to massive congestion and poor parking on a main road, all because of hysteria that everyone is a !!!!!! and poor Tarquin might have to walk up an incline to get home.

Personally, I won't be affected as I am a blue badge holder and exempt from the zone rules...and there will be zone rules for those of you asking.

So those completely unbiased *cough* fact checkers on fullfact.org say the following:

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'

Oxford residents won’t be restricted from leaving area by car

The Facebook post shows another flyer claiming that, in Oxford, people will be restricted to how many days per year they will be able to leave their zone.

This isn’t the case. 

Oxford City Council is proposing the introduction of traffic filters which would see fines issued to drivers who drive on specific roads at certain times of the day without a permit.

However, the council has said in a statement that “residents will still be able to drive to every part of the city at any time”  adding “in the future, during certain times of the day, you may need to take a different route (e.g. using the ring road) if you want to travel by car”.'

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So, they mention 'fines' and 'permits' but no detail is really attached. They also mention you will have to take longer ring road routes if you want to travel by car. Reference here: https://fullfact.org/online/Ealing-15-minute-cities/

Then, if you actually go to the Oxfordshire Council website:

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'Restrictions and permits

The traffic filter restrictions will only prohibit cars (without a valid permit) during operating hours. Cars are defined as category M1 vehicles - vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats as well as the driver’s seat.

Permits

Residents in the Oxford permit area

100 day permits per calendar year per vehicle. Maximum one vehicle per person (must be the registered keeper or owner). Maximum three vehicles per household. Valid for all six traffic filters at any time during that day.

Residents in the Oxfordshire Permit Area

25 day permits per calendar year per vehicle. Maximum one vehicle per person (must be the registered keeper or owner). Maximum two vehicles per household. Valid for all six traffic filters at any time during that day.'

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Also, regarding fines:

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'How they work

Traffic signs will identify the location and operating times of each traffic filter, as well as the main exemptions. Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras will be installed to record vehicles going through the traffic filters. When the filters are operating, cars without a permit driving through the filters will receive a fine of £70 (reduced to £35 if paid promptly). 

All potential offences are carefully vetted by trained personnel and an appeal process is available in case of a dispute. The images captured are used solely for the purposes of the enforcement of traffic offences.'

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Reference:

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters#:~:text=Residents in the Oxford permit,any time during that day.

I am not opposed to the concept, but I am worried that this is the wrong approach and could potentially be used in future to enforce other agendas on the populace. I'd rather a scheme that charged 20p for every journey into a green zone and use that money to subsidise a type of scheme similar to the car scrappage scheme, where people can buy subsidised electric vehicles, whilst also helping finance the public transport infrastructure.

Le_Kirk

If councils (and others) are intent on looking after our health, just ban all cars, vans, buses & lorries from the area, no money need change hands.  Of course we would have to ask the council how food/goods is delivered to shops and how vulnerable people get close to shops to look at empty shelves!

MikeyPGT

daveyjp said:

Imagine living somewhere with supermarkets, doctors, dentist, mechanics, car showroom, petrol stations, car wash, joiners workshop, glazier, plumbers, tool hire, gym, swimming pool, sports stadia, golf course, metal fabricator, electrician and alarm installer, vets, food takeways, pubs, station, bus stop, ambulance, fire, police station, library, places of worship, parks, schools, college, university all within 15 minutes.

Oh no, that's like where I live, were doomed.

Me too.  Luckily the chip they implanted when I had my Covid vaccine is faulty and I can still get on the bus or train (either within a 20 minute walk) and escape to the big cities if I feel the urge.