Petrol money?

SpudGunPaul

Bigwheels1111 said:

Say you fill up your car with fuel, then she pays for it because you drove her.
You never then receive any payment.
Its not like hire and reward, or taking a friend to get lunch and them paying would be against the law.

I went to a boot fair about 25 year ago in Kent, the police were stopping every driver and giving fines for not having business insurance. As you make money at the fair. I thanked the idiot ( police officer ), and said I can’t wait to drag him to court and screw him over for his stupidity.
This somewhat confused his tiny little tyrannical mine. He had to call a Sargent over. They both could not understand why I was so happy and smug.
At that point the Sargent had a brain wave and for the first time during the stop asked me do you have business insurance ?.
It might have had something to do with the mini cab Ariel on the roof on my car.
I waved the hire and rewarded certificate at them.
They could not get away from me quickly enough.

Does reward need to be a cash payment?

DullGreyGuy

SpudGunPaul said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

Say you fill up your car with fuel, then she pays for it because you drove her.
You never then receive any payment.
Its not like hire and reward, or taking a friend to get lunch and them paying would be against the law.

I went to a boot fair about 25 year ago in Kent, the police were stopping every driver and giving fines for not having business insurance. As you make money at the fair. I thanked the idiot ( police officer ), and said I can’t wait to drag him to court and screw him over for his stupidity.
This somewhat confused his tiny little tyrannical mine. He had to call a Sargent over. They both could not understand why I was so happy and smug.
At that point the Sargent had a brain wave and for the first time during the stop asked me do you have business insurance ?.
It might have had something to do with the mini cab Ariel on the roof on my car.
I waved the hire and rewarded certificate at them.
They could not get away from me quickly enough.

Does reward need to be a cash payment?

HMRC taxes benefits in kind too... though it is their sister!

Sea_Shell

I think there's some overthinking going on here 😉

If you're doing a friend or relative a favour, it's SD&P.

If they reciprocate or reimburse you in ANY form, surely that's just the nature of give an take relationships.

Maybe they make you lunch, or give you a bottle of wine, or babysit or maybe they do give you £20.   It's just a thankyou, not payment.

sevenhills

Bigwheels1111 said:

I went to a boot fair about 25 year ago in Kent, the police were stopping every driver and giving fines for not having business insurance.

It might have had something to do with the mini cab Ariel on the roof on my car.
I waved the hire and rewarded certificate at them.
They could not get away from me quickly enough.

So would your taxi insurance cover you if you for boot fairs or if you also had a £20 gardening job every week?
Sorry for over-thinking 🤩

mtc95

I do some volunteer driving for a local organisation that gives lifts to people with no other transport for medical appointments.  We charge them a small amount to cover the petrol.  When I started, I phoned my insurance company to check that I was covered for this and they said it was fine as long as the payments were just for covering the journey costs.

sevenhills

mtc95 said:

I do some volunteer driving for a local organisation that gives lifts to people with no other transport for medical appointments.  We charge them a small amount to cover the petrol.  When I started, I phoned my insurance company to check that I was covered for this and they said it was fine as long as the payments were just for covering the journey costs.

It did cross my mind to set up a charity, that would probably not need to be registered.
The local council offer lawns and garden work, they charge more than myself, yet are considered a nonprofit organisation.

Aretnap

user1977 said:

Aretnap said:

sevenhills said:

I never ask my sister for money.

arrangements for the payment of fares by the passenger or passengers carried at separate fares were made before the journey began.

In which case it's a gift, not a payment, so it still isn't hire/reward.

That's not really how these things are analysed (e.g. "I'm not a taxi driver, I merely happen to gift people a free lift in my car after they gift me some cash"). But in any event I agree this example isn't one to get worried about.

Well there are two possibilities really

(1) The OP really does have no expectation of getting petrol money, and it comes as a complete surprise every single time when his sister offers him some. In which case it IS a genuine gift and he's not driving for hire or reward.

(2) The OP does have an understanding with his sister - just an unspoken one - that she'll pay petrol money. In which case an unspoken agreement is still an agreement, and RTA s150 applies and it's not hire or reward either.

I suspect that the situation is actually more akin to (2), but if the OP absolutely insists that he's not expecting payment then (1) applies and it doesn't affect his insurance either way. Basically he's overthinking things massively.

(In theory if you drove around town offering lifts to strangers purely out of the goodness of your heart with no expectation of rewards, and a few of them did offer you unexpected gifts afterwards, then that wouldn't be hire and reward either. You would just have to persuade HMRC, the taxi licensing agency and your insurance company that that really was what was going on - which might be difficult. It's somewhat easier when you're obviously doing a favour for a friend or relative rather than a random stranger.)

Bigwheels1111

sevenhills said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

I went to a boot fair about 25 year ago in Kent, the police were stopping every driver and giving fines for not having business insurance.

It might have had something to do with the mini cab Ariel on the roof on my car.
I waved the hire and rewarded certificate at them.
They could not get away from me quickly enough.

So would your taxi insurance cover you if you for boot fairs or if you also had a £20 gardening job every week?
Sorry for over-thinking 🤩

It’s business insurance, very expensive insurance. It covers me as in reward.
I made money from what I was doing.
I used it for mini cabbing, Food deliveries, Flower delivery etc.
Re gardening job, who would know.
My current insurance covers me for business use, at no extra cost.
Look and see if yours does, that might put you mind a ease.

baser999

Bigwheels1111 said:

Say you fill up your car with fuel, then she pays for it because you drove her.
You never then receive any payment.
Its not like hire and reward, or taking a friend to get lunch and them paying would be against the law.

I went to a boot fair about 25 year ago in Kent, the police were stopping every driver and giving fines for not having business insurance. As you make money at the fair. I thanked the idiot ( police officer ), and said I can’t wait to drag him to court and screw him over for his stupidity.
This somewhat confused his tiny little tyrannical mine. He had to call a Sargent over. They both could not understand why I was so happy and smug.
At that point the Sargent had a brain wave and for the first time during the stop asked me do you have business insurance ?.
It might have had something to do with the mini cab Ariel on the roof on my car.
I waved the hire and rewarded certificate at them.
They could not get away from me quickly enough.

Guy rents storage along the road from me and is a ‘professional’ boot seller, that’s how he makes his living, so technically would need business insurance for both his activity and vehicle. So the idiot as you referred to him would well be within his rights to ask if he was insured.