Economy 7 Price hike

Scot_39

Swipe said:

Scot_39 said:

Then  they can consider that very question.

Complaining about a rate on something less likely to be being used, is arguably pointless.

Especially when it comes with a balancing reduction in units more likely to be used.

Conveniently ignored as usual in first post.

The new tariffs will in all likelihood change again in July, Oct etc etc

Panic about next winter now ifs  - seems only likely to lead to stress and anxiety.

The predictions are a dip in July then back up in October last time I checked. And who was complaining about prices? I was just stating that 18p wasn't cheap.

It might not have been that cheap.  But cf 34p it's not expensive either.

But others have been paying close to that on E7 for past 3 months.

EOn E7 in midlands was c17.3p iirc, up c2.6p

My own E10 22.6p off peak, up 2.26p or c11% cf Oct.

And over all E7 saw a c7% rise in Jan across 2.5m homes.

Those who saved or moved to save the lucky ones.

Stubod

Swipe said:

Stubod said:

18.5p still sounds very cheap to me??

Not when you have half a dozen storage heaters it doesn't

..cheap compared to what I am paying, (26p)...and I too have storage heaters...

Graham2

In my area (South Wales) eon is now the cheapest night rate (14.73p) and most expensive day rate (45.21). Over the last 6 months the least cost night rate was first EDF then Scottish Power then UW and now eon. I am weighing up whether it is worth switching again just for a month or so until the heaters are switched off.

Mobtr

LunarViolet said:

I am with EDF, i have filed a complaint with them today. Standing charge went up 30%, day rate down 15% but night rate gone up by a massive 91%. 

Why? What are you expecting as a resolution to your complaint? 

EssexHebridean

Stubod said:

Swipe said:

Stubod said:

18.5p still sounds very cheap to me??

Not when you have half a dozen storage heaters it doesn't

..cheap compared to what I am paying, (26p)...and I too have storage heaters...

Have a look at alternative suppliers to change to then, maybe? No point in paying more than you need to, and there may well be another out there who has a better cost split for your use! 

Nath4n

Mobtr said:

LunarViolet said:

I am with EDF, i have filed a complaint with them today. Standing charge went up 30%, day rate down 15% but night rate gone up by a massive 91%. 

Why? What are you expecting as a resolution to your complaint? 

There is an argument to be made that providers making significant shifts to their day/night 'balance' may significantly affect certain users, and giving customers less than 1 week notice of these price (and DD) changes is not in line with OFGEM guidance. OFGEM used to require providers to give customers 30 days notice of any increase to variable rates which leave any customers "significantly worse off". This guidance has changed recently in line with the price cap process, but a recent consultation from OFGEM stated:

"4.21. We consider our proposal of a 25-working day notice period will provide suppliers enough time to give customers an adequate amount of notice. Based on our understanding of suppliers’ update processes, we expect there to be at least 10 working days’ notice, but ideally closer to 15 working days provided to customers. This leaves three weeks for suppliers to update their systems and send out communications." 

I can imagine that the late confirmation from the government to maintain the EPG as current levels has delayed this process, however Utility Warehouse have this week provided customers with less than 5 working days notice to changes to their variable tariff that will leave high off-peak E7 users significantly worse off (£20 p/m approx). If other providers have provided similar short notice periods, then I personally believe this is within scope of raising a formal complaint.

MattMattMattUK

Nath4n said:

Mobtr said:

LunarViolet said:

I am with EDF, i have filed a complaint with them today. Standing charge went up 30%, day rate down 15% but night rate gone up by a massive 91%. 

Why? What are you expecting as a resolution to your complaint? 

There is an argument to be made that providers making significant shifts to their day/night 'balance' may significantly affect certain users, and giving customers less than 1 week notice of these price (and DD) changes is not in line with OFGEM guidance. OFGEM used to require providers to give customers 30 days notice of any increase to variable rates which leave any customers "significantly worse off". This guidance has changed recently in line with the price cap process, but a recent consultation from OFGEM stated:

"4.21. We consider our proposal of a 25-working day notice period will provide suppliers enough time to give customers an adequate amount of notice. Based on our understanding of suppliers’ update processes, we expect there to be at least 10 working days’ notice, but ideally closer to 15 working days provided to customers. This leaves three weeks for suppliers to update their systems and send out communications." 

I can imagine that the late confirmation from the government to maintain the EPG as current levels has delayed this process

I am sure energy providers would like to be able to publish tariffs sooner, but with the government dragging everything out for theatrical effect and the suppliers then required to go through the information once they receive it then gain Ofgem approval for the tariffs I cannot really blame them for not having them out earlier.

Nath4n said:
however Utility Warehouse have this week provided customers with less than 5 working days notice to changes to their variable tariff that will leave high off-peak E7 users significantly worse off (£20 p/m approx). 

I am not sure that £20 pcm can be described as significant, in addition the bulk of the cost, heating, is pretty much no longer required, seasonal usage variations will factor in. 

Nath4n said:
If other providers have provided similar short notice periods, then I personally believe this is within scope of raising a formal complaint.

What actual grounds, based on breach of regulations, not just non-implemented consultations do you feel there are grounds for a formal complaint? As far as I am aware "I don't like it" is not valid grounds.

superkoopauk

I can imagine that the late confirmation from the government to maintain the EPG as current levels has delayed this process, however Utility Warehouse have this week provided customers with less than 5 working days notice to changes to their variable tariff that will leave high off-peak E7 users significantly worse off (£20 p/m approx). If other providers have provided similar short notice periods, then I personally believe this is within scope of raising a formal complaint.

Even if you switch after 1st April Ofgem rules state you will be held at your old rates until you switch away (as long as you switch within a reasonable time frame which Utility Warehouse should define on the price increase letter)

pochase

Nath4n said:

Mobtr said:

LunarViolet said:

I am with EDF, i have filed a complaint with them today. Standing charge went up 30%, day rate down 15% but night rate gone up by a massive 91%. 

Why? What are you expecting as a resolution to your complaint? 

There is an argument to be made that providers making significant shifts to their day/night 'balance' may significantly affect certain users, and giving customers less than 1 week notice of these price (and DD) changes is not in line with OFGEM guidance. OFGEM used to require providers to give customers 30 days notice of any increase to variable rates which leave any customers "significantly worse off". This guidance has changed recently in line with the price cap process, but a recent consultation from OFGEM stated:

"4.21. We consider our proposal of a 25-working day notice period will provide suppliers enough time to give customers an adequate amount of notice. Based on our understanding of suppliers’ update processes, we expect there to be at least 10 working days’ notice, but ideally closer to 15 working days provided to customers. This leaves three weeks for suppliers to update their systems and send out communications." 

I can imagine that the late confirmation from the government to maintain the EPG as current levels has delayed this process, however Utility Warehouse have this week provided customers with less than 5 working days notice to changes to their variable tariff that will leave high off-peak E7 users significantly worse off (£20 p/m approx). If other providers have provided similar short notice periods, then I personally believe this is within scope of raising a formal complaint.

Are you sure that this dates after the latest changes to the cap process? The new cap is announced 35 days before the change date, which is equal to 25 working days.

How exactly could they expect the suppliers to inform customers of new rates within hours of them getting the information, apart from the fact that the governmentonly gave the EPG information weeks later.

Nath4n

pochase said:

Nath4n said:

Mobtr said:

LunarViolet said:

I am with EDF, i have filed a complaint with them today. Standing charge went up 30%, day rate down 15% but night rate gone up by a massive 91%. 

Why? What are you expecting as a resolution to your complaint? 

There is an argument to be made that providers making significant shifts to their day/night 'balance' may significantly affect certain users, and giving customers less than 1 week notice of these price (and DD) changes is not in line with OFGEM guidance. OFGEM used to require providers to give customers 30 days notice of any increase to variable rates which leave any customers "significantly worse off". This guidance has changed recently in line with the price cap process, but a recent consultation from OFGEM stated:

"4.21. We consider our proposal of a 25-working day notice period will provide suppliers enough time to give customers an adequate amount of notice. Based on our understanding of suppliers’ update processes, we expect there to be at least 10 working days’ notice, but ideally closer to 15 working days provided to customers. This leaves three weeks for suppliers to update their systems and send out communications." 

I can imagine that the late confirmation from the government to maintain the EPG as current levels has delayed this process, however Utility Warehouse have this week provided customers with less than 5 working days notice to changes to their variable tariff that will leave high off-peak E7 users significantly worse off (£20 p/m approx). If other providers have provided similar short notice periods, then I personally believe this is within scope of raising a formal complaint.

Are you sure that this dates after the latest changes to the cap process? The new cap is announced 35 days before the change date, which is equal to 25 working days.

How exactly could they expect the suppliers to inform customers of new rates within hours of them getting the information, apart from the fact that the governmentonly gave the EPG information weeks later.

Yes, the 25 working days referred to is the notice period period that OFGEM provide to suppliers. This is the text in the consultation implementation document: 

"The lag between the observation period closing and start of the cap will be a total of 30 working days – the first five working days would be for Ofgem to calculate and publish the new cap level with the remaining 25 working days for suppliers to inform customers and make the changes necessary to implement the new cap level. This shorter notice period also reduces volume risk by allowing us to incorporate more current wholesale price data into our calculation of the wholesale cost allowance." 

In addition, there is this additional content in regards to the issue being discussed in the implementation document:

"Customer impacts The impact of having less notice for decisions

4.13. Several stakeholders were concerned about the short period that customers, particularly those in vulnerable groups, would have to assess their position and engage with the market to decide before the price change is implemented.

4.14. One consumer group highlighted that vulnerable people often have less flexibility in their finances to manage increases in costs and the period proposed makes it difficult for those in this demographic to balance their budgets or seek assistance such as benefit claims. Two consumer groups suggested that more should be done to identify vulnerable customers, so groups of vulnerable customers are better informed of the support available for them and are not overlooked.

4.15. The two suppliers mentioned above indicated that customers could end up receiving as little as two weeks’ notice of a price change due to the time needed by suppliers to implement price changes after Ofgem’s announcement and then issue a notification to customers. Both suppliers were concerned two weeks may not be enough for consumers to react to those changes.

4.16. Our consumer research found that consumers prefer to know about any changes to the price cap as soon as the information is available. A general announcement a month or more in advance was received as a positive option by participants. Participants also suggested the announcement should contain as much detail as possible.

4.17. We recognise the reduction in notice potentially gives customers less time than the current approach to act following a price change. We have sought to balance using current wholesale prices when setting the cap to reduce volume risk (and the risk of supplier failure) and the amount of notice provided to suppliers and customers. Following our engagement with industry, we consider our decision gives enough time for suppliers to update systems and notify customers.

4.18. To note, the number of working days is fewer than the number of calendar days. This means that after we announce the cap, 25 working days in advance of the cap level taking effect, consumers will have over a month’s notice for foresight and response (eg we will announce the October cap in late-August). Additionally, we are considering whether we can provide forecasts of the cap on a regular basis to keep stakeholders and customers informed of the direction of upcoming cap updates. However, to note, a forecast would be inherently uncertain and would only show the average effect rather than be specific to a particular customer.

4.19. With regards to the treatment of vulnerable customers, we remind licence holders than the standards of conduct set out in the supplier licence conditions require licence holders to ensure vulnerable customers’ needs are taken into account and they are communicated to in a way that suits their needs. An example of this may be to prioritise notifications for vulnerable customers to ensure they receive the maximum notice possible. Methods of identifying vulnerable customers is not in scope of this particular decision. However, we welcome any views from stakeholders to feed into relevant policy teams.

4.20. We will continue to review and monitor the impacts of wholesale methodology on suppliers and customers after the implementation of the decision set out in this document. As mentioned earlier in the document, we intend to review the policy in future once we have fully transitioned to quarterly updates and when enough time has passed to consider its impacts."
 
@MattMattMattUK I wouldn't want to get into the subjective discussion on whether £20p/m increase is or is not 'significant'. I would argue that for vulnerable customers, £240 extra per year is significant.

I would also continue to argue that UW's 4 working days notice is not in line with OFGEM's consultation and implementation guidance quoted above.