Asset Rich, Cash Poor - Me vs £130k debt mountain

sparks_2023

The wisdom on this board is that it is not a good idea to use your pension lump sum to pay off debts.

I don't 100% go along with that - if it genuinely resets your life and is of benefit to your future then I'm more forgiving of it as a strategy - but there is big danger. Using your pension to pay off debts which will just build up again is madness. It must be done with the closing of credit accounts and a rock solid commitment not to open any more. Everything from now on bought with savings. The Credit Report status would be irrelevant - as getting credit isn't something on the agenda. If you've used your lump sum imagine you are 90 years old and applying for credit ( you won't get it ). For me that is part of the package.

Well that's my view. Goes against the grain a bit here.

Unless your wife's credit options are severely restricted going forward, my guess is that this will not work well in the long term.

Whiterose23

Quite a few posts on here are from people who can’t control a partner’s spending. The common theme seems to be a weakness and inability in the working partner to put a foot down and say ‘no’
and stick to it no matter what.

The mental health issues sound overwhelming and I wouldn’t know how to advise on that but can you not get her cards off her when she receives them and destroy them? She shouldn’t have a credit card at all. It may upset her more but how can things get any worse than they are? 

It looks as though she just manages to get whatever she wants, and how is giving in all the time helping her?

I agree with an earlier poster re your son - this must be quite damaging for him to see the state his mother is in, and to see nothing improving.

I don’t know how you cope with this situation, I really don’t.

fantasyvsreality

The comment I am about to make comes from a place of concern and not to cause offence. I myself am the damaged child of an alcoholic mother. My dad did everything he could to protect my mother from intervention because she would threaten all manner of awful things if he tried to leave her or get her psychiatric help. His life was miserable but he stayed devoted to her. If I had one wish it would be that he had left her, regardless of the consequences - I wish he had put us first. Both my sister and I were very damaged because of our childhood. Therefore I would be very surprised if the dynamic in your household isn't having a negative effect on your son. If not now then when he is an adult, and has to navigate intimate relationships himself. Think of your relationship with your wife as a blueprint for what he thinks love looks like. If social services were to get involved then perhaps your wife would get the help she needs, and you and your son the support you need. I really hope you can find a way through because It sounds very tough for you. I also don't know how you cope.

Grumpelstiltskin

I worry that at some point the **** will hit the fan.
Your wife will end up being arrested for drink driving and then what?
You are not thinking straight because of the pressure you are under and it is your son you should be putting first, you must persuade your wife to seek help and stop her access to money.

DebtSurfer

Dear all who left your comments. Sorry that I'm leaving a common answer as a common topic popped up.
That I may need help myself.
That I may be a weakling who can't put my foot down.
That I need to involve social services or betray my wife to some "intervention".
That our son is damaged by all that.
And that you don't know how I could cope.

Just a few comments, b/c I've received a lot of wisdom Thank you all for your replies, even though I might not agree with them all wholeheartedly. This is the value of this thread, it provides me not only the reflection of what I think, but other opinions, different from my own. 

And that's why I thank all of you profoundly.

1. I may sound grumpy, but I'm not a helpless kitten. I am quite a big boy, and quite seriously physically strong. It is impossible to go past me if I decided I'm not letting you drive while drunk. I can disarm a knife against me -- or you --, can stop a person from harming themselves, too. I will not hesitate to hide all knives in the house.
2. She may sound like a complete basket case, but when choosing to be sober, she isn't. She is putting lots of love to our son and me. She can bake, play music, pamper us with things.
3. I am far from helpless moneywise. These are my measures:
- I have reduced the number of available to her cards.
- She can't use common cards anymore.
- I deliberately don't pay off much of her N-Wide £11k card, so she's limited by available money.
- Her other B-card has just a £250 limit and the card is "Hitlerian", meaning it would reject any attempts to spend over the limit.
- There are other purchases she would do, but first she would have to prove to me they are needed. And that is no easy.
- About 50-70% of purchases get rejected to be bought, or returned.
- Often she orders a few things, tries them on, and voluntarily sends them back. Somehow that still helps her "comfort". 
4. Most of the time she won't even think of drink driving. At her "second self", she's too weak to actually even go downstairs. There will be no drink driving.
5. When she's in a binge, she'd most of the time just be upstairs and our son won't be seeing much of her. When she's not, she'd come down and after a few days just serve as a normal mom. Except almost never taking him to school, unless directly asked by me. School tried to burrow into "where's mom and why doesn't she come pick up her son?" but I masterfully deflected this privacy invasion. Brought her to school a few times with me on her clear days, and just said "it's more convenient for us this way". They got off our backs. Purely smiles and friendliness, and clever wording.

On social services, special rambling

I am sorry but I will be adamant on these. Again, no I am not paranoid. I just have seen how they can burrow into your life, then barge, then suddenly they try to dictate you what to do, and often do so without any concern to reality; I still remember how in the hospital the dreaded "consultant" ordered his hospital bed side fencing to be taken away and surely enough, he had a few near-misses to a flight on the floor. Then I just came and demanded the side walls back or else. They had to comply...

They refused to listen that every child has got their own development tempos. They demanded he eats finger food (he hated it). They demanded he holds the spoon (he did when his time had come but not a second before). They demanded we go and see some stupid services they were keen to refer us to, only to be told there that they have no relevance to us and are intended for aggressive children. All these referrals were made to create a picture of a trashy family who don't care about their child. 

They called our squeaky clean house where cleaners were going to every 2 weeks, just there was some dog hair -- completely dirty.
They'd call us "emotionally cold and distant" -- the social worker who dealt with their "concern" was incredulous they could even write it! especially when our son came for a hug during our talk.
They tried to allege there is a gross negligence where there wasn't even a whiff of it.

This "paediatric consultant" who organised this ugly fascist "trial" I wrote earlier about still gives me the shivers. We were able to file a complain later and she is now too old to get elsewhere, so doesn't work there anymore and doesn't harm vulnerable families anymore. 

We are no kittens. We both have degrees and can fight for ourselves where they'd try to outsmart us.

What really bothers me is how everything you share with them during a minute of weakness CAN and WILL be used against you. Every word you ever said is written down, analysed, sometimes distorted, and put to their sinister purposes. Some of the conclusions are made without you. I was once asked whether I drink alcohol at all, just because I had a bit of a fatty liver. That about me, who hardly ever drinks a drop. I had to insist they take this off in front of my eyes because this is wrong.

I have seen a documentary on what children services can do to people. They can use police in case you refuse them entry. They can force you to do things. They can take your child from you and there'll be no open trial or ways to get them back. End of.

Summary -- I am not saying they are all like this. I have met quite a few helpful social workers. One of them helped us to file for disability payments when first time we were rejected outright. Another one found him play team when he was getting cantankerous due to boredom. But I am taught the hard way never ever to babble around them. So is our son. They may be nice people as such, but they got job instructions and a job to do. 

Therefore they will be kept outside of our lives, hopefully. Our son is 9 this year. Another 9 and we will never feel another snoop from them again.

That just means our son is getting the trend. Nothing unfair to secure information that can harm you. You won't disclose your logins and passwords to a hacker -- so you don't babble about your life to snooping people. Seems fair and right. 

Coping

1. It is all not as hopeless as you might think.
My calm explanations with consequences demonstration do have effect.
At these days, she doesn't drink as much, and even when sometimes gets a glass, next day she most of the time steers clear.
She had only 2 recent lapses in last 4 months, but they lasted only less than a week and she went out of them -- I kept insisting that she takes her meds and that helped a lot. 

2. Shopping as I wrote above is seriously restricted. It still exists and has its effect on our monthly ledger but gone are the days she could run up a £2,000 bill, then return £500 worth of merch and proudly say "it wasn't much! I did as you said!". She is developing some money consciousness and is actively looking for deals on her stuff, tries to queue and schedule her purchases rather than just keep pressing BUY button.
Some result!

3. As I mentioned above, I can find little joys all around me. Little progresses in this and that makes me happy and ready to go ahead indefinitely.
One of my favourite analogies is a Five of Cups tarot card. In classical tradition, it's pictured as three spilled cups and two full cups. The narrative is as such: "True, three cups have been lost. But the two are still there! See what you can salvage in your life."
Mind you, I'm not really a Tarot card reader. I just liked the maxima. Stand up from your knees, salvage what is salvageable, and move ahead -- worked for me many times in this life and will work again, again, and again against the hits of the Fate.

4. Looks like after she's seen a few alternatives to me, she's developed massive "homesickness" about me. Gone is the Tinder golden subscription and all the crap. It wasn't open marriage, but just an open door... its mere availability has brought down its attractiveness. "Your home is where your heart is". 

5. Seriously, our son loves both his mom and his dad. He's been asked and he said so without prompts.

Thus, it looks like my efforts, however hopeless they seemed, were slowly bringing the positive effect.

6. I have the pension lump sum nuke option, or I can get a promotion (just 1k a month extra could totally change my situation, and start an ultrafast debt recovery process). It is not all doom & gloom. 

7. People go through wars... and all I have is some problems at home (I heard other people's stories from the parents of my son's friends -- all sorts of crappy lives they disclosed to me, including social services all over their families, getting sky high rents, pestered with diagnoses, chronical lack of money -- and some of my stories keep them afloat, and they get forward with their life.).
So, I'm just bound to find my way through it. People get 100x worse experiences, without own 4-bed house or a plush Mercedes in a decent place.

Future

I'll start soon to post my financial wins and losses. And when I have time, SOA. 
Time to get busy  

CRANKY40

So my advice still stands. Find somewhere to save the money to pay off the cards. It needs to be somewhere that your wife has no access to (and possibly/probably no knowledge of). Once you have the funds to pay her debts if you lose your job again you can relax a bit?

My son has quite a few sensory issues with food but we worked on coping strategies. I won't bore you with the work we did but he can sit and eat a burger with his mates now. We've never had him tested for an autistic spectrum disorder as we preferred finding our own ways of doing things. I had people tellng me that he was being naughty when he got up for the day at 4am (he wasn't, I have ADHD so something has been passed on genetically). I get your reluctance to include officialdom in your life though. 

I'm glad that you've said that your wife has improved. It's surprising how little control you have over your own mind when loss or trauma hits you. PTSD and the flashbacks that can't be stopped even when you don't want to see them are horrible. When I was widowed and people said that they didn't know how I was coping my answer was "Can you tell me the alternative?". Sometimes you just have to keep on keeping on. 

alt80

You can get through this mate but in my experience you can't do it alone and this is what it seems like you are trying to do. Marriage is a team effort and you need to work on it, both of you, every day. There'll be ups and downs but if you're not in it together, it won't get consistently better - financially or emotionally. I don’t think your pension is the answer, you’ll be out of debt for maybe a little while but more than likely wind up back where you started over time. If you’ve no other investments, using the pension pot will put you or your wife (especially as she is younger) in a potentially precarious position during your later years.  

By the ‘special friend’ reference I assume you’re referring to her dealer, not that it really matters other than to state the obvious of pick your moment to have a proper conversation with her, when she’s been off the booze as well as any other substances for at least a few days. Don’t preach and don’t forget to listen. The difficult bit is you BOTH have to want to recover in a marriage, you can’t just do it all on your own. 

Fwiw, I've been sat here hovering over the 'post comment' button for far too long even though quite a few on here are well aware of the majority of what I'm going to post, suppose it's the difference of being in a different mindset. I don't know if it will help or not but it possibly explains my position. It has taken me two stays in rehab to really start to make some inroads into a better future for my family and whilst I understand your reason should never come from someone else, my turning point was when my wife agreed to participate in therapy as a family, couple and on an individual level. I could go on for days about the debt I've been in over the years, at one of my lowest points I refinanced my already fairly highly geared property portfolio to the max to pull money to pay off into six figures of credit card debt. I'm a recovering cocaine addict and both my wife and I struggled with spending. I am still in therapy and likely will be for some time to come, days are up and down but that's life. 

My wife is a housewife (by choice - hers) and we have a similar age gap to you and your wife, I met her when she was 20 and I was 28 and until recently I couldn't fully accept that she had valid experiences and views that are just as important as mine. I treated her as a 'kidult', not how it should be but how it was. Therapy has changed our lives and marriage, I've never felt pride like watching her grow as a person over the past 7-8 months and I now appreciate what she has done for me over the years. She's not my princess anymore, she's my queen. That's how it should be and how it can be when you're both working towards a common goal and choose to make a life together. Good days and bad days. 

I'm not going to preach every day is amazing because it isn't and is never going to be. Financially, we pull in the same direction now, talk it through and put barriers in place where needed. As a result, we are well on our way to clearing our credit card debts, given up some very expensive personal cars which were all financed and have chosen to drive two electric cars paid for through my business reducing our personal outgoings. The credit card accounts are being closed as we go and we have a long term plan to work towards real financial security. We also have a boy who is a similar age to yours and his school has been a brilliant support to us. Not sure how relevant this is but my treatment and therapy has been solely private sector and my son attends a private school. Do you have private medical insurance through your job? If so, I'd highly recommend taking a look at the mental health benefits included.

DebtSurfer

A small comment is due here.

On drugs

• Neither me nor my fair lady are drug users. 
• I tried smoking a spliff once when I was a uni student, didn't like the experience at all, also I value my head as an instrument to earn and a storage of thoughts. It would be a complete waste to trash it with mind altering substances.
• I don't drink except socially maybe 3-5 times a year. I don't like wine. I wouldn't mind to down a shot of good cognac, but it is outside of my price range at present. Also I am always behind the wheel, each day, every day. I So best to keep it 100% sober. I may let down the hair on a Christmas party, but me being me, I would end up collecting others who are drunk rather than enjoying the drink.
  
• My wife doesn't do drugs either. 
• When she does alco, she does wine. Her favourite is the "bubbly" (look at those bubbles, they lift my mood!) -- however if it's a binge, I will soon replace it with wine to sap the pleasure from the process, or it will never end.
• However, she fights it now in earnest.

Shopping

I try not to let her to go to the shops.
Me in the shops: "1. Milk. 2. Turkey. 3. Dill+coriander..." -- at the till the number of purchases equals to number of positions in the shopping list. 
She: "oh, wow! lookie, I want this... and this... and this... and I wanted this for ages" and at the till, a little trip for a bottle of milk ends up with a £50 bill and lots of "artisan" and "gourmet" things, most from the "Finest" range most of them sweet, fatty or alcoholic but "oh so tasty"!

She's classy, you must give her that.
And like a sports car, she runs on 98th petrol. Being cheap and having to save "saps her life energy and makes her sad". She would come to a shelf full of products, say "I want this!" and this will be the most darn expensive item on the shelf, "Finest", "Artisan" or "Gourmet" or "Exclusive". I pointed her that and she said, "I swear I don't look at price tags, just select an acceptable product!". Then we both would laugh.

One day I really would like to earn that much that she'd be free to select any gorram thing from the shelf without guilt... and enjoy a glass of wine without having to kill her depression with it.
And of course I'll just grab a bottle of the best cognac and sip from it a coupla' times. Once in a blue moon.

DebtSurfer

The SOA as promised.

Somehow default formatting doesn't work (forum codes), so I just had to format it manually.

(Thank you jokono for your help!)

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information

Number of adults in household........... 2

Number of children in household......... 1

Number of cars owned.................... 2

Monthly Income Details

Monthly income after tax................ 3320

Partners monthly income after tax....... 0

Benefits................................ 730

Other income............................ 0

Total monthly income.................... 4050

Monthly Expense Details

Mortgage................................ 1091

Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0

Rent.................................... 0

Management charge (leasehold property).. 13

Council tax............................. 196

Electricity............................. 101

Gas..................................... 92

Oil..................................... 0

Water rates............................. 57

Telephone (land line)................... 0

Mobile phone............................ 15

TV Licence.............................. 0

Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0

Internet Services....................... 56

Groceries etc. ......................... 600

Clothing................................ 300

Petrol/diesel........................... 140

Road tax................................ 33

Car Insurance........................... 55

Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 60

Car parking............................. 0

Other travel............................ 0

Childcare/nursery....................... 0

Other child related expenses............ 25

Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 200

Pet insurance/vet bills................. 15

Buildings insurance..................... 0

Contents insurance...................... 0

Life assurance ......................... 0

Other insurance......................... 0

Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 15

Haircuts................................ 15

Entertainment........................... 50

Holiday................................. 0

Emergency fund.......................... 0

Total monthly expenses.................. 3129

Assets

Cash.................................... 7

House value (Gross)..................... 370000

Shares and bonds (Pension)........................ 219000

Car(s).................................. 15000

Other assets............................ 2000

Total Assets............................ 606007

Secured & HP Debts

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Mortgage...................... 73200....(1091).....0

Total secured & HP debts...... 73200.....-.........-

Unsecured Debts

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Tesco Credit...................11884.....240.......13

Barclaycard 1..................13018.....290.......20

Barclaycard 2..................5716......90........22

Overdraft......................4050......0.........40

Barclaycard (Her)..............207.......207.......0

Nationwide (Her)...............11100.....291.......22

Nationwide Credit..............12961.....221.......17

Total unsecured debts..........58936.....1339......-

Monthly Budget Summary

Total monthly income.................... 4,050

Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 3,129

Available for debt repayments........... 921

Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 1,339

Amount short for making debt repayments. -418

Personal Balance Sheet Summary

Total assets (things you own)........... 606,007

Total HP & Secured debt................. -73,200

Total Unsecured debt.................... -58,936

Net Assets.............................. 473,871

Created using the SOA calculator at www.LemonFool.co.uk.

Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

jokono

Fixed that for you

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information

Number of adults in household........... 2

Number of children in household......... 1

Number of cars owned.................... 2

Monthly Income Details

Monthly income after tax................ 3320

Partners monthly income after tax....... 0

Benefits................................ 730

Other income............................ 0

Total monthly income.................... 4050

Monthly Expense Details

Mortgage................................ 1091

Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0

Rent.................................... 0

Management charge (leasehold property).. 13

Council tax............................. 196

Electricity............................. 101

Gas..................................... 92

Oil..................................... 0

Water rates............................. 57

Telephone (land line)................... 0

Mobile phone............................ 15

TV Licence.............................. 0

Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0

Internet Services....................... 56

Groceries etc. ......................... 600

Clothing................................ 300

Petrol/diesel........................... 140

Road tax................................ 33

Car Insurance........................... 55

Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 60

Car parking............................. 0

Other travel............................ 0

Childcare/nursery....................... 0

Other child related expenses............ 25

Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 200

Pet insurance/vet bills................. 15

Buildings insurance..................... 0

Contents insurance...................... 0

Life assurance ......................... 0

Other insurance......................... 0

Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 15

Haircuts................................ 15

Entertainment........................... 50

Holiday................................. 0

Emergency fund.......................... 0

Total monthly expenses.................. 3129

Assets

Cash.................................... 7

House value (Gross)..................... 370000

Shares and bonds (Pension)........................ 219000

Car(s).................................. 15000

Other assets............................ 2000

Total Assets............................ 606007

Secured & HP Debts

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Mortgage...................... 73200....(1091).....0

Total secured & HP debts...... 73200.....-.........-

Unsecured Debts

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Tesco Credit...................11884.....240.......13

Barclaycard 1..................13018.....290.......20

Barclaycard 2..................5716......90........22

Overdraft......................4050......0.........40

Barclaycard (Her)..............207.......207.......0

Nationwide (Her)...............11100.....291.......22

Nationwide Credit..............12961.....221.......17

Total unsecured debts..........58936.....1339......-

Monthly Budget Summary

Total monthly income.................... 4,050

Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 3,129

Available for debt repayments........... 921

Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 1,339

Amount short for making debt repayments. -418

Personal Balance Sheet Summary

Total assets (things you own)........... 606,007

Total HP & Secured debt................. -73,200

Total Unsecured debt.................... -58,936

Net Assets.............................. 473,871