Mortgage company failed to remove the charge from my deeds at the Land Registry.

Tiglet2

user1977 said:

Tiglet2 said:

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

A&L is now part of Santander. You 

You haven't told us what, if any, extra expense you've actually incurred. In any event, I think it's up to you to make sure the security is discharged - you have had almost a quarter of a century to sort it out. Had you asked them to discharge the security? Had they told you that they had discharged it?

I think that it’s pretty clear that the OP's point is that the £60 paid to end the mortgage ought to have covered the cost of A&L removing the charge. I have no idea whether that is customary, but I would hope it is. If the op now has extra costs as a result, he should complain to the lender and see what they say. 

Obviously, it would help if others say whether the lender removes the charge themselves.

Yes, the lender removes the charge.  The Coventry Building Society removed their charge over my property within days of redeeming their mortgage and I downloaded a copy of the title register as soon as the Land Registry advised that there had been activity on my title, just to confirm!

If OP has any paper evidence that the mortgage was paid, i.e. old bank statements/correspondence from A&L, that would make it much easier for Santander to trace and do the necessary formalities.

But what was the normal practice in 1999 for what sounds like an unregistered property?

I had thought it was registered (has OP confirmed either way?), but that the building society/lender just held all the associated deeds/paperwork until the mortgage had been redeemed.  Then the lender would discharge their charge at Land Registry and send the bundle of papers to the client.  

GDB2222

I’m not sure when the LR did away with the paper certificates? In any case, I don’t think that the use of the word deeds is always accurate on this forum. 

TBG01

GDB2222 said:

I’m not sure when the LR did away with the paper certificates? In any case, I don’t think that the use of the word deeds is always accurate on this forum. 

Correct.

Far too many people think their "Deeds" is this magical bundle of documents, spanning hundreds or thousands of years, possibly revealing that the land once belonged to a Knight of the Round Table.

When in reality, following the Land Registry Deeds Dematerialisation Act, all you're getting/need to show ownership is a single one or two page document which most people won't be able to make heads or tales of, but will still scream about not having their "Deeds".

Flugelhorn

TBG01 said:

GDB2222 said:

I’m not sure when the LR did away with the paper certificates? In any case, I don’t think that the use of the word deeds is always accurate on this forum. 

Correct.

Far too many people think their "Deeds" is this magical bundle of documents, spanning hundreds or thousands of years, possibly revealing that the land once belonged to a Knight of the Round Table.

When in reality, following the Land Registry Deeds Dematerialisation Act, all you're getting/need to show ownership is a single one or two page document which most people won't be able to make heads or tales of, but will still scream about not having their "Deeds".

we were give the old deeds and transfer documents to our last property - the solicitor made it clear to us that this bundle of beautifully written documents was of purely historical interest but we might like to keep them anyway , we did and duly passed them on to the next owners 

GDB2222

Statex2_2 said:

Just looked at HM Land Registry and  paper deeds are available from the Land Registry and the charge is £7 per page for a copy.

We are getting a bit hung up on the term deeds. It really doesn’t matter all that much.

I agree with you that you should ask Santander to pay your additional costs. You came here to ask whether it is usual for lenders to remove the charge when the mortgage is paid off, and you have been told that it is usual. So, you have enough information to make what hopefully will be a successful complaint. Please let us know how you get on.

Tiglet2

Statex2_2 said:

The building society wanted £25 per annum when I paid up my mortgage in full to securely store the deeds. I refused and purchased a safe. They held on to the deeds for several months. I complained and they sent them to me  28 days after my letter was sent, saying that our letters had crossed in the post.

After I received my deeds they sent me a 1 page document stating that the mortgage had been redeemed. This page was to be added to the paper deeds, Naturally I thought all was well and legal.

I engaged a solicitor and after downloading my title document and plan, phoned me to say that there was still a charge on my property.

There will obviously be extra costs as the solicitor will have extra work to do to remove the charge. The solicitor said this happens frequently and the worst offenders are Santander and Nationwide.

Therefore as I will incur extra legal costs and Alliance & Leicester were negligent and now owned by Santander they are responsible for the negligence and should pay.

Do you still have this letter stored with the other paperwork in your safe?  If so, please send a copy to Santander and your solicitor and all three of you should be able to sort it out fairly quickly.

As said before, "Deeds" can be all sorts of historical documents such as old conveyances, transfers etc. which lenders typically kept until they released them to the owner when their mortgage was redeemed.  The up to date title from Land Registry is the title register as it is today.  As it shows a charge, which you say is redeemed, then it will need to be removed before exchange.

silvercar

Statex2_2 said:

I have down loaded the Land Registry Title and it shows the charge which was entered on the title 10 years after I paid off my mortgage in1999 and the charge was date 2010. With a reference to the 1989 original mortgage. Was 2010 the date that Santander took over Alliance and Leicester I have raised a complaint with Santander today and they are supposed to phone me tomorrow. At that time I was paying 14 and a half percent interest. I have the paperwork to prove it. 

Is this a Scam by santander because my solicitor said this happens very frequently eapecially so with Santander.
 Just suppose I die my wife dies and we have no relatives or heirs. The executors do not know what has happened or paid off etc.as it could be 20 or 30 years later. Makes on wonder if it is a deliberate ploy by Santander to pillage intestate estates.

Santander bought A&L October 2008. No doubt non urgent paperwork took some time to sort out.

I wouldn't credit Santander with deliberate ploys over natural incompetence!

GDB2222

Statex2_2 said:

I have down loaded the Land Registry Title and it shows the charge which was entered on the title 10 years after I paid off my mortgage in1999 and the charge was date 2010. With a reference to the 1989 original mortgage. Was 2010 the date that Santander took over Alliance and Leicester I have raised a complaint with Santander today and they are supposed to phone me tomorrow. At that time I was paying 14 and a half percent interest. I have the paperwork to prove it. 

Is this a Scam by santander because my solicitor said this happens very frequently eapecially so with Santander.
 Just suppose I die my wife dies and we have no relatives or heirs. The executors do not know what has happened or paid off etc.as it could be 20 or 30 years later. Makes on wonder if it is a deliberate ploy by Santander to pillage intestate estates.

That is one of the dafter conspiracy theories that I have heard. Of course, they are not doing that to make money. 

GDB2222

silvercar said:

Statex2_2 said:

I have down loaded the Land Registry Title and it shows the charge which was entered on the title 10 years after I paid off my mortgage in1999 and the charge was date 2010. With a reference to the 1989 original mortgage. Was 2010 the date that Santander took over Alliance and Leicester I have raised a complaint with Santander today and they are supposed to phone me tomorrow. At that time I was paying 14 and a half percent interest. I have the paperwork to prove it. 

Is this a Scam by santander because my solicitor said this happens very frequently eapecially so with Santander.
 Just suppose I die my wife dies and we have no relatives or heirs. The executors do not know what has happened or paid off etc.as it could be 20 or 30 years later. Makes on wonder if it is a deliberate ploy by Santander to pillage intestate estates.

Santander bought A&L October 2008. No doubt non urgent paperwork took some time to sort out.

I wouldn't credit Santander with deliberate ploys over natural incompetence!

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Hanlon's Razor. 

user1977

Statex2_2 said:

Is this a Scam by santander because my solicitor said this happens very frequently eapecially so with Santander.
Just suppose I die my wife dies and we have no relatives or heirs. The executors do not know what has happened or paid off etc.as it could be 20 or 30 years later. Makes on wonder if it is a deliberate ploy by Santander to pillage intestate estates.

I think you're letting your paranoia run away with you. How could a bank "pillage" an estate without also fabricating a mortgage account with a debt on it? They could equally do the same with unsecured debts, after all (or living customers!).

As your solicitor has said, it's very commonplace for securities not to have been automatically discharged on redemption of a mortgage, especially back in the day when it would have been more of a manual process involved.