Gemini Parking Solutions - Canary Wharf Estate, Random NTK, no on-screen PCN

Qaribbean

Qaribbean said:

Boat_to_Bolivia said:

Well just file it and wait for them to issue you with a POPLA code.

Have you complained to the landowner as CM suggested?

I have, not had a response back yet so will follow up.

Response from landowners (Canary Wharf Estate):

Dear Q,

Thank you for your email. We commenced parking enforcement on the estate in September 2022 to reflect the arrangements with local authority roads and private property locally. Appeals against the issue of Parking Charge Notices are dealt with by Gemini, who are members of accredited professional parking enforcement organisations. I am happy to pass on your dissatisfaction to them but have no information on your registration number, PCN number, time of issue or exact location so am somewhat limited at the moment. I would stress, however, that any formal appeal you wish to lodge must be directly to Gemini via their portal on the Website. I have attached a link.

https://www.geminiparkingsolutions.com/

Many thanks,

Not much help there then.  Enforcement since September 2022 would make sense somewhat as the vehicle has been parked in the same are of the alleged contravention before with no issues!

B789

You need to respond to that email and remind them that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents. Remember to give them your PCN details this time.

A reminder that it would appear from their initial response that they are unsure who is the monkey and who is the organ grinder in their relationship.

Qaribbean

Updating on this one.  Followed up with the landowners again with the following:

Hi,

Thanks kindly for your response.

I’ll happily share the PCN details with you to discuss with Gemini.

I’ve taken some further observations of the recent parking restrictions that have been enforced and I don't think they are quite up to standard.

As you mentioned, these came into force in September last year and there have been no clear indications of new enforcement apart from the signs that are inadequately sized and coloured. My vehicle has been parked in that same spot before since September and no signage was visible until this PCN was issued.

I should also make it clear to you that while I lodged a formal appeal through Gemini, they have attempted to use entrapment techniques while refusing to engage in an appeal.

Their recent letter (which I’ll happily share if you would like to see for yourself) stated that they could not engage in an appeal unless the driver of the vehicle at the time was identified o if I as owner of the vehicle was willing to accept liability.  This has been ruled as an illegal action by the DVLA who have also made this clear to APCOA, and the BPA, the “accredited professional parking associations” you mentioned.

This is not your fault X however it should be made clear to you how unethical and immoral this company is that the estate have chosen to work with.

I have taken similar companies to court before over these unethical parking charges. It should be made clear that Canary Wharf Estate are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents and they should not be allowed to tarnish the reputation of the estate.

(PCN Details)

The PCN details are above; I would kindly appreciate that you speak with Gemini and request that they cancel this charge issued to a blue badge holding vehicle and also make significant changes to increase visibility of any signage in place.

Regards,

They provided this response:

Dear Q,

Thanks for your email, I am investigating with Gemini, we are advised that the signage is fully compliant. We carried out full due diligence checks on this company before appointing them. I am not sure if you work on the estate but communications were sent out to all businesses prior to the implementation in 2022.

Thanks,

Then received this reply yesterday:

Dear Q,

I have followed up with Gemini and they have sent me the attached detailing the signage in the photograph. The attached artwork proof shows the design of the signage and it was approved as regulation compliant.

Kind regards,



That first image is also one they provided as evidence to me, although that is not the vehicle I own below the signage as the vehicle was actually parked two spaces further away.

This also is completely separate to the fact that there was never any PCN issued on the vehicle, the NTK was the first correspondence on this.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Coupon-mad

Push again that they are unlawfully refusing to let a registered keeper appeal, which is disingenuous claptrap and goes against the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which was only allowed to add 'keeper liability' in 2013 once POPLA was created, and registered keepers (NOT just drivers) had a legal right to appeal.

Gemini are no longer BPA AOS members so there is no POPLA and no genuine alternative (truly independent) appeal offered. There's also no signature on that artwork, which demonstrates precisely nothing.

Qaribbean

Had correspondence from Gemini directly this week saying my appeal was upheld and they’ve cancelled the ticket! Exact wording below:

I refer to your correspondence regarding the above PCN issued to your vehicle. 

We have investigated your case and have considered the points that were raised.

On this occasion your appeal has been upheld and this PCN has been cancelled. 

No further action is required at this time.

Park & Control fully complies with the guidelines set by the International Parking Community. Please note that photographic evidence is taken with every PCN that is issued.

Didn’t hear any more from the landowners and they didn’t seem keen to push Gemini however perhaps my appeal was taken seriously due to all the enquiries.

Thanks as always to everyone contributing advice and more importantly providing a source of confidence for drivers to not feel so intimidated by these parking firms.

Coupon-mad

Well done.

Never be intimidated by this greedy bullyboy industry!

Gemini can go swivel.  They were slightly better (albeit always came across as arrogant in their stupid self-congratulatory Podcasts) when they were in the BPA.

We can all guess why they moved to the IPC but with signage like that, I'd hope their days are numbered because that won't get past a proper independent appeals service, once the rogue parking industry are regulated in 2024.

What an appalling sign that is.

White words on a black background and placed so high as to be unnoticeable as well as unreadable.  And that was new in Autumn 2022 so how on earth were local drivers meant to psychically notice that change to parking terms?!

Not a single word of t&cs is legible!

And who is this 'Park & Control'? A trading name of Gemini?

Qaribbean

Coupon-mad said:

And who is this 'Park & Control'? A trading name of Gemini?

Had a quick Google, turns out Gemini has been bought by the heinous APCOA.  Park and Control is a division of APCOA.  It says "Park and Control focuses on managing parking in city and town center locations on private ground."

https://www.parking.net/parking-news/apcoa/parking-acquires-gemini-parking-to-expand-its-park-and-control-business-in-the-uk

1505grandad

On IPC AoS members list:-

Park & Control (UK) Ltd

www.parkandcontrol.co.uk

Companies House  -  Company number NI071262

Coupon-mad

1505grandad said:

On IPC AoS members list:-

Park & Control (UK) Ltd

www.parkandcontrol.co.uk

Companies House  -  Company number NI071262

So why are they replying - a different legal entity - when the 'approved' signage says the operator is Gemini?