Landline's being switched off - Questions

JohnB47

flaneurs_lobster said:

JohnB47 said:

RumRat said:

JohnB47 said:

As has been said, once a house is moved to full fibre broadband (FTTP) and home phone, if the broadband fails, the phone stops working.

But also of note is that it will no longer be possible to plug a 'plain ordinary telephone' into the master socket and get service that way. Not just because there won't be such a master socket - the technology will be completely different.

That's my understanding anyway.

I was given an adapter that fits into the router and my 'ordinary telephone' works as it always has.

Yes but my point is that when your broadband goes 'off' your ordinary telephone won't work. You would have to rely on a mobile phone with access to 4G, 5 G or whatever to make telephone calls.

An ordinary phone relies on 50 volt DC supplied from the telephone exchange, which does not exist on Full Fibre to the Premises (FTTP). Even if that voltage could be supplied locally (using a battery as mentioned by others) you still couldn't make a call because broadband would be down.

The battery backup described upthread is to keep the router alive during a power cut, it has nothing to do with keeping the handset powered. If you have a simple plug-in handset (not a cordless type) it will still function. Broadband does not "go down" during a power cut.

Fair enough but we're talking at cross purposes here. What I'm saying is that when there is a failure of the broadband connection to a house, i.e. it fails at the exchange or somewhere else before it reaches the house, then any ordinary telephone in the house will not work. Nothing to do with a power failure in the house. 

You can have the router backed up with a battery, to cater for when the mains power to the house fails, but if there is a failure of the fibre broadband connection to the house, your home telephones won't work.

Broadband does go down - I quite often notice that the normally blue light on my Plusnet router has turned orange, then flashes, then settles down to blue again. Thankfully it is not for long but during that time, broadband has failed.

I still have a fully copper connection to my house, supplying 38Mbs broadband speed and home phone (DECT type). Not recently, but in the past, I've had broadband fail but my home phone still works. That's because I have a copper pair connection all the way from my house to the exchange.

MouldyOldDough

PHK said:

Marvqn1 said:

One issue is, phone sockets are often at the front of the house where there is no electrical socket. So I guess this means that householders will have to pay for an electrician to fit a power socket for DV?

I guess there are some properties that have never had a powered phone, answering machine or router plugged into the master socket but I don't know what the answer for that would be or who would pay.

I am guessing (hoping) that the switch over will be similar to when TV broadcasts went from Analogue to Digital in 2012 - those without Sky or similar were offered a free aerial upgrade to allow reception of Freeview !

Chickereeeee

JohnB47 said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

JohnB47 said:

RumRat said:

JohnB47 said:

As has been said, once a house is moved to full fibre broadband (FTTP) and home phone, if the broadband fails, the phone stops working.

But also of note is that it will no longer be possible to plug a 'plain ordinary telephone' into the master socket and get service that way. Not just because there won't be such a master socket - the technology will be completely different.

That's my understanding anyway.

I was given an adapter that fits into the router and my 'ordinary telephone' works as it always has.

Yes but my point is that when your broadband goes 'off' your ordinary telephone won't work. You would have to rely on a mobile phone with access to 4G, 5 G or whatever to make telephone calls.

An ordinary phone relies on 50 volt DC supplied from the telephone exchange, which does not exist on Full Fibre to the Premises (FTTP). Even if that voltage could be supplied locally (using a battery as mentioned by others) you still couldn't make a call because broadband would be down.

The battery backup described upthread is to keep the router alive during a power cut, it has nothing to do with keeping the handset powered. If you have a simple plug-in handset (not a cordless type) it will still function. Broadband does not "go down" during a power cut.

Fair enough but we're talking at cross purposes here. What I'm saying is that when there is a failure of the broadband connection to a house, i.e. it fails at the exchange or somewhere else before it reaches the house, then any ordinary telephone in the house will not work. Nothing to do with a power failure in the house. 

You can have the router backed up with a battery, to cater for when the mains power to the house fails, but if there is a failure of the fibre broadband connection to the house, your home telephones won't work.

Broadband does go down - I quite often notice that the normally blue light on my Plusnet router has turned orange, then flashes, then settles down to blue again. Thankfully it is not for long but during that time, broadband has failed.

I still have a fully copper connection to my house, supplying 38Mbs broadband speed and home phone (DECT type). Not recently, but in the past, I've had broadband fail but my home phone still works. That's because I have a copper pair connection all the way from my house to the exchange.

This is true, but, the past (pre-broadband/mobile), a failure at you local telephone exchange would mean you lost your telephone, and there was NO back-up at all. Exchange failures did happen, and they were quite frequent in the early days of the telephone.

One of the main advantages of FTTP is that there is a single, new, connection to all premises, rather than the mix of 100 year old copper and aluminium wires that have be cut, spliced, induction/capacitance compensated, cross-talk reduced, got damp, etc etc MANY times. In short, it should be a LOT more reliable. And the plan is to make it even more reliable in the future. Will it go down? Sure, but much less than copper, and you now have mobile phone back up.

PowerDev

The FTTP project is described as 21CV - 21st Century VoIP. 

We've had a fair debate on the Virgin Media Forums about the impact of Mains Failure.  OFCOM issued directives that Phone service providers must provide a backup cellular phone for anyone who only has a landline currently. 
(Virgin - installed by Telecential and others in the 1990s - is Fibre to a Road box, Coax to the premises).  

So, do we have an issue with Mains Failure - Exchange and Cabinet as well as premises.

The original PSTN Network was indeed Copper on the Trunk routes, between the Exchange Buildings and to the Premises. 
Each line a Two wire 48 volt system with Batteries and Backup generators (must cut in within 30 seconds - I had friends who went to work for the GPO) at the Exchange buildings.  At one time they had to support mechanical switching (Strowger) equipment but is the modern Digital Exchange Loading higher or lower?
Each Area code has multiple Exchange Buildings - 21 of them for 0118 Area code for example.

So they first replace the Trunk route copper (Multi Arm Telegraph Poles along the Railways) with Microwaves then Fibre. On the same rail route I assume.  Plus National Grid Energis running Fibre along the Earth Wires of the Supergrid overhead lines.
And of course interconnecting the exchange buildings with Fibre.

Then run Fibre to replace Copper to the Connection frames you see about, with the remaining Copper still to the premises.  FTTC.  These cabinets seem to need 240volt supplies (Road Cable?)
Finally of course Fibre from the Cabinets through the pavements and service bands or along the poles to the premises - FTTP
Some roads have ducts from the larger BT pavement chambers to a small box at the front of each house, but not necessarily where the owner wants the line to enter.  Hence cables from that BT box around the house.  I think the Fibre can be similarly routed to where it is wanted to enter? 

Noting some of the Fibre-Transceiver units of the 4 mast operators at the base of each Cellular phone mast have 240V warning notices although others just quote 48V.   The info on 'backup' Cellular mast supplies seems rather sparse. 

So, can we have Cabinet as well as Premises Mains failure interrupting the VoIP phone service?
And how reliable is the cellular system?   

Info on the OFCOM pages under 21CV

HollyandCo

B0bbyEwing said:

I've not read the replies so maybe this has been answered:

You've been without a land-line for nearly 2yrs but now you say they're being phased out, you're concerned about emergencies....

What do you do currently for the 'just in case emergency' scenario?? 

I recently had an emergency (intruder to my house at 2am) and it was that emergency that triggered my questions.  Fortunately my son was at home and he had a working mobile upstairs - the police were here within minutes and apprehended the intruder.

cerebus

HollyandCo said:

B0bbyEwing said:

I've not read the replies so maybe this has been answered:

You've been without a land-line for nearly 2yrs but now you say they're being phased out, you're concerned about emergencies....

What do you do currently for the 'just in case emergency' scenario?? 

I recently had an emergency (intruder to my house at 2am) and it was that emergency that triggered my questions.  Fortunately my son was at home and he had a working mobile upstairs - the police were here within minutes and apprehended the intruder.

Sorry to hear that, hope you and your family are OK

Unfortunately there's nothing stopping the intruder cutting the cable that supplies the broadband to your home killing your phone 

Although you don't like it your best option is to keep your phone close by and to make lots of noise turn on lights etc as intruders will usually run when they realise they have disturbed the occupants