Paying tradesman by bank transfer

trient

xylophone said:

Have you seen examples of this tradesman's work?

Photos on their website and on Facebook - for what it's worth, but only a handful of jobs. He seemed well qualified when we spoke.

StevenGude

trient said:

Zanderman said:

But still very normal, in my experience with electricians, builders and similar over the last 18 months, to default to bank transfer.  They finish the work, and then they send you the invoice. A card reader would require them to be present - but the invoice is sent by email days after the work is finished.  So bank transfer is suggested and works fine, as long as you're careful with the details!

The small trader using a card reader - which is more and more frequent - is going to be using them for face to face payments, whilst still on site.  Some readers (like SumUp, which we use) do have an option of a virtual terminal, so you can take card payments from a client over the phone. 

Actually garden contractors we've used (within the last 2 years) seem to prefer cash.

I have no qualms with bank transfer upon completion - plumber and sparky were fine - just that the jobs were lower value (£ hundreds rather than thousands) and most of the work was labour so I guess harder for them to justify asking for a deposit.  I just don't have prior experience with garden works and was not sure if 50% deposit was the norm, it sounds like it isn't.  Yes, I would have rather expected cash on completion (with maybe a payment mid-way), but charging so much up front triggered alarms.

I wouldn't be paying 50% up front. Don't think I've ever been asked for it other than the kitchen company. I didn't even pay any of the bathroom furniture until after it was fitted.

We agreed with our gardener to pay for  certain sections once they were complete whilst he moved onto the next part (some were delayed due to weather too) - so for example we paid nothing up front but he itemised things and when he completed the sleeper beds and patio, we paid for that. Then paid for lawn separately when completed, same for steps.

We were happy with this as we were only paying for completed work and it obviously allowed him to recoup material costs as the job progressed.

Nebulous2

trient said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Neil49 said:

If the 50% up front is to purchase items for the gardening project, such as slabbing etc then you would be better off offering to purchase it directly from the supplier yourself. If the trader does a runner you at least have the goods. 

I suspect the reason is the same but buying yourself may be notably more expensive depending on the discount they get... depends then if you want to pay 20% more to protect yourself from a scam or take a punt and save money if they are an honest trades person.

Personally I would ask for a breakdown of labour and materials for each of the payments. I wouldnt want to be paying too much labour in advance but at the same time can understand why they wouldnt want to offer me credit terms on the materials.

You haven't said how you selected this company? Ultimately if having the ability to do a chargeback is important to you then shop around... even our street corner hot dog seller and the busker besides him take credit cards now thanks to Zettle and SumUp 

Works consist in removing some plants with an excavator, laying new lawn and some top soil and building some raised garden beds. He wasn't keen to do a breakdown so no idea how much he needs to pay up front himself (for renting the skip and digger, buying sleepers and soil etc) and I imagine it won't be cheap but as others said I'd expect him to have credit terms and not have to charge me thousands well in advance before the works start.

We found the company (well, "company") on Yell. They're not from the local area, maybe that was a mistake to start with.

The ability to chargeback was just one way of doing risk management I thought.  Trust needs to be mutual but risk management has to be sensible on both sides.  For me 10% deposit sounded right - after all he knows where I live.  Or I could pay more if I would get some level of protection, so credit card for chargeback, or MCOL? though not sure whether/how well it works for sole traders.

Again hoping for the best but having to plan for the worst as well.

I'm not surprised if there is that amount of equipment involved that there is payment up front. 

We generally pay on completion, but with a fairly big roof repair our roofer asked us for a payment in advance to cover scaffolding hire. 

Your tradesman doesn't want to be cheated - he is a landscaper, not a credit controller, and probably has experience of bad debts. You don't want to be cheated either, by someone who takes your money and doesn't complete, or doesn't do it satisfactorily. 

The issue now is to see if you can find a middle road, that you can both live with. 

badger09

I’ve recently paid £792 (£660+VAT) in advance by bank transfer. £3k+VAT to be paid day after work starts & balance £1k+VAT on satisfactory completion. 

This is to a local builder, a personal recommendation, and basically is to secure a start date of 23 May. As I struggled to get quotes for this work, and 2 I did get were for over £2k more, I’m comfortable with it. I had Confirmation of Payee when I set up the payment via app, so I know it’s the correct business account. Obviously there’s an element of trust involved. But that goes both ways. 

born_again

trient said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Neil49 said:

If the 50% up front is to purchase items for the gardening project, such as slabbing etc then you would be better off offering to purchase it directly from the supplier yourself. If the trader does a runner you at least have the goods. 

I suspect the reason is the same but buying yourself may be notably more expensive depending on the discount they get... depends then if you want to pay 20% more to protect yourself from a scam or take a punt and save money if they are an honest trades person.

Personally I would ask for a breakdown of labour and materials for each of the payments. I wouldnt want to be paying too much labour in advance but at the same time can understand why they wouldnt want to offer me credit terms on the materials.

You haven't said how you selected this company? Ultimately if having the ability to do a chargeback is important to you then shop around... even our street corner hot dog seller and the busker besides him take credit cards now thanks to Zettle and SumUp 

Works consist in removing some plants with an excavator, laying new lawn and some top soil and building some raised garden beds. He wasn't keen to do a breakdown so no idea how much he needs to pay up front himself (for renting the skip and digger, buying sleepers and soil etc) and I imagine it won't be cheap but as others said I'd expect him to have credit terms and not have to charge me thousands well in advance before the works start.

We found the company (well, "company") on Yell. They're not from the local area, maybe that was a mistake to start with.

The ability to chargeback was just one way of doing risk management I thought.  Trust needs to be mutual but risk management has to be sensible on both sides.  For me 10% deposit sounded right - after all he knows where I live.  Or I could pay more if I would get some level of protection, so credit card for chargeback, or MCOL? though not sure whether/how well it works for sole traders.

Again hoping for the best but having to plan for the worst as well.

Do you know their address?
Have you confirmed it?

pridehappy

Personally, I wouldn’t. It’s most likely if you pay by bank transfer that your bank won’t refund you if something goes wrong. Plus, a 50% deposit before the work has even started seems really high.

If I was the person doing the work, I’d ask for a maximum of 10% deposit and just write out a contract. It’s really that simple. Banks also make it clear just because someone is friendly doesn’t mean they aren’t doing wrong, and everything else you said honestly points out as red flags going against the banks advice. No reviews, information, registration etc…

If you can, pay by credit card if there’s no fees or even if there’s a small one, think of it as paying for insurance. Your credit card provider is more likely to refund you than your current/savings account provider.

propertyrental

the bank transfer is not the problem. This is:

trient said:

...... I've received a quotation from a tradesman (gardening works) and their payment terms are bank transfer only, 50% 1 week before works commence, 25% in the first week, 25% upon completion (works duration estimated at 2-3 weeks, total value about £7k).
..

Find another contractor.

Martico

If he's not keen to provide a breakdown of his charges at that kind of price point then I'd go elsewhere. He's giving you no idea what you're paying for, that's not on.
And that's before the other red flags

Ghostcrawler

Is his business on checkatrade?

Have you got formal quotation from his software accounting?

I recently did work amounting to £3800 and paid in two installments.  Contacted through checkatrade and got formal quotations.

GenieBoy

Checkatrade and similar sites are full of rip off merchants. If a trader was genuinely good and they would be getting plenty of business from word of mouth they wouldn't be advertising on services like this.