Incorrect bank transfer

ForumUser7

deb1111 said:

RBS. Which Halifax are part of. 😩

RBS is Royal Bank of Scotland, NatWest Group
BoS is Bank of Scotland, Lloyds Banking Group

Halifax is part of Lloyds Banking Group, not NatWest Group 

deb1111

masonic said:

This seems a bit of an odd one as most banks signed up to the misdirected payments code of best practice, which I believe does permit a bank to make such disclosures as are necessary to allow legal proceedings to be initiated. Any complaint should always be made against your bank, because the recipient bank (if different) does not have a contractual relationship with you.

It would be helpful to understand the facts of the matter:

Do you know whether or not the recipient of the money has disputed that it was sent in error?

Is the recipient bank signed up to the voluntary code?

I don't know if they have disputed or not. All I know is that Halifax couldn't recover the money. 
I assume RBS are part of the voluntary code.

masonic

deb1111 said:

masonic said:

This seems a bit of an odd one as most banks signed up to the misdirected payments code of best practice, which I believe does permit a bank to make such disclosures as are necessary to allow legal proceedings to be initiated. Any complaint should always be made against your bank, because the recipient bank (if different) does not have a contractual relationship with you.

It would be helpful to understand the facts of the matter:

Do you know whether or not the recipient of the money has disputed that it was sent in error?

Is the recipient bank signed up to the voluntary code?

I don't know if they have disputed or not. All I know is that Halifax couldn't recover the money. 
I assume RBS are part of the voluntary code.

Yes, I am fairly sure Natwest/RBS is signed up to the code. That means unless the recipient has disputed that the payment was misdirected, then you would have had it back, or a repayment plan would have been arranged. The recipient should have been warned that by falsely disputing the claim, they are committing an offence. RBS may be unable to disclose contact information if the recipient has convinced them your payment was genuine and not misdirected. If you can get confirmation of this, then you might be able to report it as a crime to get a crime reference to be used to extract the details of the guilty party, or take RBS to court for the return of the money (sending a letter before action to their legal correspondence address might be enough to do the trick). Neither option guarantees you'll make any progress, but unfortunately the misdirected payment code does rather depend on the honesty (or silence) of the recipient.

eskbanker

masonic said:

This seems a bit of an odd one as most banks signed up to the misdirected payments code of best practice, which I believe does permit a bank to make such disclosures as are necessary to allow legal proceedings to be initiated.

Are you referring to the voluntary code adopted by most players back in 2014?  As a voluntary code of practice, I didn't think it had sufficient status to override obligations under data protection legislation but I couldn't find a copy of the code anyway, as it was published by the Payments Council and all online traces seem to have disappeared!

RBS were certainly part of it from the word go though....

masonic

eskbanker said:

masonic said:

This seems a bit of an odd one as most banks signed up to the misdirected payments code of best practice, which I believe does permit a bank to make such disclosures as are necessary to allow legal proceedings to be initiated.

Are you referring to the voluntary code adopted by most players back in 2014?  As a voluntary code of practice, I didn't think it had sufficient status to override obligations under data protection legislation but I couldn't find a copy of the code anyway, as it was published by the Payments Council and all online traces seem to have disappeared!

RBS were certainly part of it from the word go though....

It's a voluntary code, but it is binding on those who voluntarily signed up to it. I don't think it ever required banks to make disclosures where the recipient convinced them the payment was genuine.

Edit: the code certainly has disappeared though. Payments Council become Payments UK in 2015, then UK Finance in July 2017. Sadly I couldn't find any trace of the code there.

masonic

Looks like there is some pretty credible advice here about the procedure to follow:

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge-base/banking-security-recovering-wrong-payments

"If the recipient refuses to return the money, you need to obtain their details in order to pursue the matter. These should be requested in writing from your bank, giving them a reasonable amount of time to respond to you. If the bank refuses to provide these details on data protection grounds, you will need to get a court order compelling the bank to disclose this information. A solicitor is best placed to assist you with this. Once you have these details, you may contact the recipient directly. If the recipient continues to refuse to repay the money, you need to take legal action against them."

sheramber

deb1111 said:

RBS. Which Halifax are part of. 😩

Halifax are not part of RBS. -Royal Bank of Scotland

Halifax are part of Bank of Scotland- a completely different bank.

eskbanker

masonic said:

Looks like there is some pretty credible advice here about the procedure to follow:

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge-base/banking-security-recovering-wrong-payments

"If the recipient refuses to return the money, you need to obtain their details in order to pursue the matter. These should be requested in writing from your bank, giving them a reasonable amount of time to respond to you. If the bank refuses to provide these details on data protection grounds, you will need to get a court order compelling the bank to disclose this information. A solicitor is best placed to assist you with this. Once you have these details, you may contact the recipient directly. If the recipient continues to refuse to repay the money, you need to take legal action against them."

Yes, that was my understanding, that a court order is needed to force a bank to disclose personal data, referred to as a Norwich Pharmacal order.

masonic

FWIW, here are the relevant T&C from RBS. At least this makes it clear what must have happened for the money not to have been returned.

Unlike HSBC, the wording is more consistent with being compelled to pass on contact details, rather than passing them on voluntarily.

It's a shame really, as it adds costs that probably cannot subsequently be recovered - added on to the uncertainty surrounding the recipients ability to repay the money.

deb1111

Thank you so much everyone for your advice. I at least feel like I have a few options I can pursue here now.