Tiling advice

Gavin83

Hi all. Need some advice!

I've done a number of DIY projects around the house, with success. However I've hit the first thing that's stumped me, and it's something I feel should be easy; tiling. I attempted it with a test run a few days ago and frankly it was a disaster. I think my biggest problem was with the tile adhesive itself and I suspect many of these problems stem from the mix. I'm planning on mixing another small batch soon to test this again but would appreciate any general advice.

The adhesive I used stated a mix of 3.5 parts powder to 1 part water. I based this on weight, so added 1kg of water and 3.5kg of adhesive. I mixed it but it had the consistency of a runny soup. I added more powder and it was better but likely still too thin. The other big issue I noticed was it became unusable very quickly. It had set within about 15 mins.

Based on the above I have the following questions:

1) How long should I mix the adhesive for? I only mixed for a minute or so but it appeared lump free at this point, but watery. Would mixing it for longer firm the mix up a bit? 

2) Should I be resting it at any point before use? I've seen advice to rest it after putting the powder in and other advice suggesting it should be left to rest post mixing.

3) Any other advice?

I've done projects with similar powdered products and not had these issues. For example I did some dot and dab last year and that went perfectly. 

My ultimate aim is to tile the bathroom. We're talking 60x30 porcelain tiles though so I want to be confident before I start! 

FreeBear

Some of those tile adhesives are fast setting - You could try something like the Mapei Ultraflex which has pot life of around 30 minutes according to the datasheet..

A couple of tips on using large format tiles - Use a leveling system to ensure you get minimal lippage. Back butter the tiles before putting them down on a full bed of adhesive - This will help to endure full coverage and the tiles actually stick.

Finally, don't try to rush the job.

benson1980

What adhesive are you using? I use mapie standard set and I'm sure the ratios are nothing like that and you end up with the classic "double cream" consistency. As bad luck would have it, a large blob of adhesive has obscured the instructions on the half used pack I have in the garage that I just tried checking, but I'm sure it was something like 1 litre for the whole 10kg bag- thus I'd just work this down to 100ml per kg.

Either way- you know from the results you got that the ratio is definitely wrong as it shouldn't be anywhere near runny.

Are you using a mechanical mixer (i.e. mixer paddle on a drill)?

No need to rest it. It has to be your mixing ratio.

Gavin83

FreeBear said:

Some of those tile adhesives are fast setting - You could try something like the Mapei Ultraflex which has pot life of around 30 minutes according to the datasheet..

A couple of tips on using large format tiles - Use a leveling system to ensure you get minimal lippage. Back butter the tiles before putting them down on a full bed of adhesive - This will help to endure full coverage and the tiles actually stick.

Finally, don't try to rush the job.

I'll be honest, even 30 minutes doesn't sound like that long to me. By the time it's on the wall and the tiles are applied I expect I'd be looking at a few minutes per tile. I do agree that you shouldn't rush this (or any job) though.

benson1980 said:

What adhesive are you using? I use mapie standard set and I'm sure the ratios are nothing like that and you end up with the classic "double cream" consistency. As bad luck would have it, a large blob of adhesive has obscured the instructions on the half used pack I have in the garage that I just tried checking, but I'm sure it was something like 1 litre for the whole 10kg bag- thus I'd just work this down to 100ml per kg.

Either way- you know from the results you got that the ratio is definitely wrong as it shouldn't be anywhere near runny.

Are you using a mechanical mixer (i.e. mixer paddle on a drill)?

No need to rest it. It has to be your mixing ratio.

As it was only to test with I used No Nonsense from Screwfix. I've got a different more expensive adhesive for the bathroom itself, think it was BAL from memory.

Does it thicken up as you mix it more? I'm wondering if mixing it for longer (like 5 mins) would have helped, although given how thin the mixture was I can't see it making that much difference. I figured it was the ratio but as I said I went thicker than the pack recommend.

I was using a mixer attached to a drill.

I've seen a few places recommend leaving it to rest for 5 mins before using it as it allows the additives to really work and gives you a longer pot life. I wasn't sure if that was for specific adhesives though. 

benson1980

Gavin83 said:

As it was only to test with I used No Nonsense from Screwfix. I've got a different more expensive adhesive for the bathroom itself, think it was BAL from memory.

Does it thicken up as you mix it more? I'm wondering if mixing it for longer (like 5 mins) would have helped, although given how thin the mixture was I can't see it making that much difference. I figured it was the ratio but as I said I went thicker than the pack recommend.

I was using a mixer attached to a drill.

I've seen a few places recommend leaving it to rest for 5 mins before using it as it allows the additives to really work and gives you a longer pot life. I wasn't sure if that was for specific adhesives though. 

I've had another look and think I can just about make out that it says 2.9 to 3. something litres per 10kg, which sounds about right as 1 litre per entire bag does sound far too low, thinking about it. Therefore your mixing ratio does sound ok so I'm not really sure what has happened there.

I wouldn't say it thickens up mixing it more but the way you are measuring i.e. 1kg of water being pretty much 1 litre, sounds ok. I tended to use a measuring jug for the water part just as I thought it would be more accurate.

It definitely shouldn't go off that quickly either. All I can say is that I've tended to always use Mapei (the standard set one is fine and bit easier to work with) and I have never had a mix that you are describing. It has to be your measuring out though I reckon as at the end of the day tile adhesive is tile adhesive and bottom line is it should most definitely not be runny.

ChilliBob

Having recently had three bathrooms redone, with 60*60 or 120*60 (by professionals, not me!)..

Their 'gear' as they call it seems much thicker than you have described - it looks more peanut buttery (well, perhaps a little thinner!).

They also spend a great deal of time making everything level - especially with 120*60.

It does seem to go off quickly, in the hot weather we had last year it wad setting as they were doing it in the bucket!

They used these nifty spacers that sort of clicked in and were bombproof - helped to keep it square and stuff etc - they swore by them

ChilliBob

TOPWAY Tile Leveling System 50pcs Pack Reusable Tile Levelers Spacers for Building Walls Floors + Special Wrench 347827 https://amzn.eu/d/iZjSws1

This sort of thing 

mi-key

The adhesive should be thick enough so if you put some on a tile, and turn it upside down, none falls off. About the consistency of normal wall filler is correct. It needs to be thick enough so it holds the tile securely to the wall

You can buy big tubs of ready mixed filler, and this can be a lot easier to use as you only need to use enough for one tile, put the lid back on, then fit the tile and repeat, so it doesn't go off. 

I recently did some bathroom tiling and I would guess the working time for the adhesive was at least 30 minutes, but they stuck in place straight away without any slipping

Gavin83

So I gave it a go with a smaller batch and it turned out better. However I mixed at a higher ratio than the pack suggested, 1 part water to 5 parts powder. 

Took a picture:

The issue with the quick setting still remained though.

I’ll have a go at a small batch with the better product that I’m using in the bathroom. Would be good to know how it mixes before applying it at least.

benson1980

That still looks a bit watery to me…..and the fact that it then sets too quickly is odd. As said above you should have more than enough working time with it and again with the mapei stuff I was using gave me ample time (prob 45 mins at least). I was mixing up around 2.5 kg at a time.

stuart45

Old stuff can go off too quick, or not at all. Can be a bit lumpy as well.