Did I have a right to have goods returned to seller etc, etc.

richard_3095

Hi. I bought some goods from a retailer on Ebay, that I decided were not what I thought I was buying. So, before the goods got to me, I phoned up Yodel the carrier asking for the goods to be returned to sender.  I have written confirmation from Yodel, that the goods were returned to seller, but that does not mean they actually have been. I cannot be helped by Ebay for a technical reason. Anyhow, 1) did I have a right to instruct the carrier to return goods to seller before they got to my doorstep?  2) Should the carrier have taken my instruction? 3) Could I have refused the goods at the doorstep without any negative consequences to me?  Since I have evidence from Yodel that they say they returned goods to seller, would I likely win a case in small claim court, arguing that, in any event, I have evidence I never received the goods and am therefore due a refund? Thanks a lot. Rich

diystarter7

Hi Rich

What is the "technical reason" that ebay can't help, please?

Thnaks

richard_3095

Hi. The techical reason is that thinking it might help, after I had effected the return to sender, I opened up a return request thingy with Ebay. Then, later, thinking it was complicating matter, because it makes it look like I received the goods, I closed the returns proceedure. Ebay say there is now nothing now they can do because of that closure. Despite the fact Yodel evidence proves I never received the goods. I am rather miffed at Ebay, because they are ignoring the factual evidence showing goods were never delivered. My receiving goods is impossible if Yodel indicate goods were returned to sender midway in the shipping process. So, I feel my only recourse is contract law, not Ebay law.

richard_3095

One other thing. Yodel has associated the shipping transaction originated by the seller with my Yodel account. I contacted Yodel asking if they could tell me whether or not the return had taken place, if delivery back to seller had occured. I was asked to provide the shippers details. I got them from Ebay, but the Yodel operative said they did not match with what they had, so I was told nothing by Yodel on this issue. Why Yodel need me to know the sellers return address baffles me a bit.

diystarter7

Hi

Thnaks for that, its very clear now .
Those that have experience of this area of concern will hopefully assist, soon

Good luck

NBLondon

1) Seems an odd way to do it but you apparently succeeded
2) I'm surprised they did since their contract was with the sender
3) You could have refused delivery and they would presumably then have been returned to sender.

Have you actually spoken to the seller at any point?  Have they confirmed that they have the goods back?  If they have, then they might offer you a refund less an admin/restocking fee.   Or have Yodel now lost the goods?

What does the seller's t&c say about a change of mind return?  Because that's what you seem to have done - before the goods arrived.

If you ended up in court and claimed non-delivery, your evidence would have to include the fact that you interfered in the process by contacting Yodel and this might count against you.

soolin

Do you actually have proof of delivery back to seller and did you advise the seller that you were returning/refusing the goods? 

richard_3095

As per my first post, the reason for the return is that I bought something in error.  I thought I was getting shelf brackets when I ordered a floating shelf. But these are not included. When it dawned upon me, I thought I'd have the carrier simply return to sender at the earliest possible moment.  I thought that wouuld be kosher. No ill intent about it on my part.  I did not advise seller I was going to return goods before I effected their return. I thought under distance selling rules I probably did not have to, that it mattered not. As to proof: Yodel's own website state that goods returned to seller. From the Leeds office. As to me contacting Yodel, I'd say it's not really material, inasmuch as the goods would have been returned in any event. Doing that did not prejudice the seller. No extra  harm or inconvenience.

TOP_CAT

Small claims talk is often shallow conversation.....
What date was the ebay order made and has it arrived or when is it expected ?

I cant see how you can request a ebay yodel courier cancellation or return as your not the seller/sender ..... the item was never ever sent  via your account .

So I doubt any cancellation happened no matter what the adviser stated or you thought .

You never booked the courier and sent the item..... so the adviser has told you your account number doesnt  match the sellers account number for the item sent  .

That how I read into it .

I would try and get a refund via the ebay returns procedure once its arrived and reorder the correct item .

soolin

TOP_CAT said:

Small claims talk is often shallow conversation.....
What date was the ebay order made and has it arrived or when is it expected ?

I cant see how you can request a ebay yodel courier cancellation or return as your not the seller/sender ..... the item was never ever sent  via your account .

So I doubt any cancellation happened no matter what the adviser stated or you thought .

You never booked the courier and sent the item..... so the adviser has told you your account number doesnt  match the sellers account number for the item sent  .

That how I read into it .

I would try and get a refund via the ebay returns procedure once it’s  do agree,,arrived and reorder the correct item .

I do agree, Yodel should not have taken instructions from recipient . OP do you have proof of delivery back to the sender , not proof of return but proof of delivery which is entirely different? 

Unfortunately as OP opened and closed a return case they can’t open another. 

It’s a shame that OP didn’t ask on here first , the simplest way would have been to refuse delivery and then ask seller for a refund, and if seller was not compliant just open an INR . They could still try an INR but a big seller with a good track record with eBay might be able to  argue that a return case being previously opened suggests OP had item at some point. The correct way would have been if item was delivered to open a change of mind return at that point, I suspect OP realised that the cost of return was at their own expense and tried to get round that cost, and has muddled things in the process. 

GadgetGuru

As Soolin states, the correct way of doing things would have been to take delivery of item, then open a 'change of mind' case with eBay. You would then be liable for return postage costs, which is fair considering the seller has done nothing wrong in this case and will be left out of pocket for your error (original postage cost). So yes, this does inconvenience and 'hurt' the seller....unless you requested a refund minus postage cost...?

Yodel shouldn't have taken instruction from you to return the item to the sender in the first instance, and even so, it was your duty to inform the seller of any return before trying to take action. 

You opened a case on eBay, which you then closed - so eBay assumes the matter has been resolved. You cannot re-open, or open a new case, once a case has been closed. It's a one time thing, as per eBay policies - so again, eBay haven't really done anything wrong here. 

Has the seller actually responded to any of your messages to confirm receipt of items, or have they actually stated they have not received anything?
If they state nothing has been received they may need to chase Yodel to apply for compensation for a missing item - again this is due to no fault of their own and they shouldn't have to waste time with this process for an error on your part. Actually, I'm not sure whether they have to contact Yodel, considering it was their chosen courier, or you do, considering you changed the terms of the contract between seller and the courier without any authorisation to do so?.....Maybe someone else will know.....

If I was the seller here, I too would be a little annoyed at why you wouldn't have contacted me first for further instruction, rather then just assuming an item could be returned (did the eBay listing have returns as an option even?, was it a private or business seller?)

If you proceed to a small claims court you will need solid evidence to prove the item was actually returned - a 'returned to sender' notice on the Yodel site is not going to cut it as it doesn't actually show, or state, that the item has been delivered back to the sender - just that they have had instruction and it has been marked for return, which doesn't prove anything really......you'll need a signature, co-ordinates, or even something that just says 'Delivered' to the senders address......