Help needed with home energy monitor for electricity and solar panels

UncleJoes

matt_drummer said:

I understand about data privacy, but they already know how much electricity you use, I cant see what more information they get other than a more detailed view of when you use it, they don't know what you are using it for!

The detailed consumption data reveals your habits and routines. The MPAN and other similar numbers are unique identifiers. It only takes one security breach for a lot of data to be compromised and for those accessing the data to be able to use it in nefarious ways. This article gives a flavour of the issues.

https://techmonitor.ai/technology/cybersecurity/how-secure-are-smart-meters

Despite one of the privacy and security protections being that only your supplier would receive the data, last October the Govt announced it would be using data from smart meters to get better insights into the rollout of the Energy Price Guarantee scheme. This is what they will now collect from every meter: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electricity-meter-data-collected-through-the-energy-bills-support-scheme-privacy-notice/use-of-electricity-meter-data-collected-through-the-energy-bills-support-scheme-privacy-notice

(I don't know about you but I don't trust this Govt as far as I can throw them!)

It is also inevitable that there will be greater demand for APIs or other access to smart meter data for reearch and public policy initiatives, and the current Govt is already actively looking to change domestic data protection law to make it easier for Govt depts to share data at will, and they have no concerns with opening up datasets to the private sector (NHS and DeepMind as one example). This article from 2022 was already talking about this: https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/smart-meters/consumer-privacy-concerns-limit-smart-meter-data-access-in-gb-report/

matt_drummer

A smart meter does not divulge your habits or routines.

It just tells somebody how much electricity you use, they have no idea whether you are welding, heating a swimming pool, baking loads of bread or whatever else it is you do. They won't know what you are wearing or not wearing whilst using electricity!

I couldn't care less who knows how much electricity I use and when I use it, it's useless information for most people.

If I told you how much electricity I used and when, what would/could you do with that information?

I firmly believe that I stand to benefit from my electricity supplier knowing what I use and when, and hopefully they offer suitable tariffs for me to avail myself of so that I end up giving them as little of my money as possible!

UncleJoes

@matt_drummer

There is a lot more data combining, uses and inferences made of data by companies than people think. I have also done data protection consultancy work for a fairly major energy provider and their compliance was not as tight as you would expect. As an energy customer on a normal meter I've recently had experience of a systems glitch that the provider could not explain, where my monthly direct debit stopped and they used my account credit to pay the bill instead. I had deliberately built up some credit to cover the incrased costs this winter and their error has left me needing to top up the next few bills until the weather get warmer and the usgae drops. So I don't have a lot of confidence in providers managing their systems well.

I have no issue with people disagreeing with me and being happy with a smart meter. I have concerns about them which have only increased with the recent Govt access to smart meter data.

matt_drummer

I am just expressing my opinion so not really disagreeing with you or trying to persuade you.

With regard to your original question, a smart meter is the easiest and cheapest way to gather the information you want.

It's up to you to work out whether any potential gain from moving to SEG is worth having a smart meter.

I can see all of what you say about data protection and you may well be right and know far more than me.

But surely any concern about your data needs to be compared to the data that may go somewhere it shouldn't?

The only data coming from a smart meter is how much electricity you use and when, does it really matter if even the whole world knew this?

I'm not sure you are that worried about your data, you have already told us how much you use and generate in a year in this thread alone!

matt_drummer

I've recently had experience of a systems glitch that the provider could not explain, where my monthly direct debit stopped and they used my account credit to pay the bill instead. I had deliberately built up some credit to cover the incrased costs this winter and their error has left me needing to top up the next few bills until the weather get warmer and the usgae drops. So I don't have a lot of confidence in providers managing their systems well.

All they have done is used your money to pay your bill, and you have had to give them some more money that you would have paid if the direct debit had been paid just to get you back where you would have been.

You have lost nothing and it's a small inconvenience at worst. It may even have been a bank issue rather than the energy company?

Stuff goes wrong sometimes, but is it really that much of a problem? I think the energy companies do a good job of managing so many accounts

UncleJoes

matt_drummer said:

I'm not sure you are that worried about your data, you have already told us how much you use and generate in a year in this thread alone!

It's not what you will do with it that concerns me! You don't have the granular data about what energy consumption happened on what dates and at what times, nor do you have access to other information about me that my energy provider has, as well as access to other datasets and databases that the provider has. Nor do you have the disclosure obligations my provider has.

matt_drummer

That's all true.

I am genuinely interested, what could they do when they know how much electricity you use and when you use it?

I honestly cannot think of anything that anybody in the world could do to harm me if they knew how much electricity I use and when I use it?

I can't really see who would care other than energy companies (in general) who could use that information to improve the supply to us.

What could they do to me with a smart meter that they can't do to somebody who does not have a smart meter?

UncleJoes

@matt_drummer

There is a lot of inferencing and assumptions made in companies, so they can make assumptions about your lifestyle based on what the data tells them. For example, they know enough about what generates how much energy to identify a pattern of, for example, the kettle being put on multiple time during a day, suggesting someone is working from home or not working. They look for patterns in data over time. So they can identify periods when you're probably away from home. The data gives them an idea of what typical loks like for a hosehold and they can identify any anomalies or differences to that. The national grid always has to prepare to have enough surplus energy available before a big event is shown on tv, like a match, as so many people put the kettle on at half time it causes a surge in demand.

There are databases of demographic information based on postcode, commonly used for marketing profiles. The company combines what it has about you with data from these databases and will put you in categories. This can determine things like what marketing you get, what offers you are shown, maybe even what tariffs are available. It could also be used to make decisions in cases where there is non-payment, debts or other issues. Any hack or breach of the data leaves a lot of data in nefarious hands.

You might trust your energy provider, but now they have to disclose a load of the data to the Government, do you trust them to keep it secure? The 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' argument is often used in privacy debates but is a fallacy. This short article is a good, clear explanation of why: https://spreadprivacy.com/three-reasons-why-the-nothing-to-hide-argument-is-flawed/

matt_drummer

You have solar panels, they don't know whether you are home or not, you could be home and boiling the kettle from solar energy, nobody would know would they?

Even if you are importing from the grid, how would anybody know you were boiling a kettle? You could be making toast?

Your electricity use tells nobody anything other than how much electricity you have used.

Marketing? What like an email or a letter?

Is there any harm in that?

They already know you use electricity, are you plagued by marketing for kettles as they know you boil a kettle?

I trust Octopus Energy to supply me with electricity and gas and they trust me to pay for it. I really don't care who they tell who they tell about how much electricity and gas I use.

I can honestly say that I have never been in the slightest bit concerned that somebody might find out how much electricity I use and when. If I was going to break into somebody's home I wouldn't be relying on the time they used electricity to determine whether they were home or not!

Surely you would want to be offered energy tariffs that suit your usage, if they are cheaper why wouldn't you want it?



Back to your issue, you probably need to contact a solar installer to come and look at your system with a view to fitting monitoring equipment. They may even be able to show you how to access what may already be available from your inverter.