Renegotiating after a survey with several faults.

MultiFuelBurner

TheJP said:

What did the surveyor/and or lender survey value the property at?

this is key they will have given you a figure?

Statex2_2

MultiFuelBurner said:

TheJP said:

What did the surveyor/and or lender survey value the property at?

this is key they will have given you a figure?

The surveyor did not value the property. A valuation would have been an extre £350. 

Statex2_2

lookstraightahead said:

Statex2_2 said:

Made an offer on a property subject to survey. However long list of faults. I estimate over £55- 65k to put right. Wall tie failure, External render cement based, should have been lime render, which has caused extensive cracking in outer walls due to excess moisture and a  phosphate reaction .  Damp in rear walls due to paving above dpc etc. Wood boring beetle in loft timbers and exposed beams in kitchen. Excessive condensation in loft. Boiler obsolete and oil tank due to fail in near future. Septic tank may not comply with current regulations as near a stream. Windows  dg misted.

I should walk away but we really love the house. Not sure how to renegotiate.  Probably would not accept £65 off the asking price. I would be most grateful for any advice.

Have you told the vendors what's wrong with it?
You need to have a state of mind where you're happy to walk away before you negotiate, puts your in a much stronger position. And it sounds like it does need a lot of work.

I sent them a long list and they seem to be a little annoyed that I wanted a discount. They said that
they had priced it to sell and taken into account the faults but he did not know of some of the faults and others he just dismisses. The price in my opinion was due to the poor cosmetic condition but not the faults that he knew nothing about. I have the solicitors,  both my solicitors and the sellers plus my buyers and both estate agents, chasing me now because I have not given my solicitor the permission to proceed with the transaction.
C'est la vie. But I will wait until I am happy to proceed. There are many other properties available at the moment.

Statex2_2

lookstraightahead said:

I honestly think it's up to you and it's value to you. 

There are a lot of sellers who think their houses are worth more than they are and there's no shifting.
if you are taking out a mortgage, how do you think the bank will value it? Can you do things like wall ties yourself as that's a major job isn't it?

I will not need a mortgage due to a small inheritance and the sale of my property, which I have owned for 30 years and mortgage paid off.

sheramber

Without a valuation it is what you think it is worth against what he thinks it is worth.  

newsgroupmonkey_

Pull out.

If I were the seller, I'd put the house straight back on the market.

Ultimately, a house is worth what someone is willing to pay. If that's not you, it'll be someone else. Yes, in this market, they might not get full asking price, but their onward purchase is almost certainly based on what they're selling for, so they'll need to maximise this.

warwick2001

sheramber said:

Without a valuation it is what you think it is worth against what he thinks it is worth.  

Even with a valuation, it's still this. A seller will not sell unless he/she is in agreement with the amount offered by the buyer (original asking price, or revised amount after negotiation). Whilst the seller doesn't hold all the cards in this transaction, he/she holds the biggest one i.e. they own the property the buyer wants to buy.

OP's situation highlights this perfectly. The property, according to the seller, is worth XXXX. The buyer (OP) thinks it's worth YYYY. Unless they can reach ZZZZ (which both parties agree to), the house will not be sold. Everything else before the ZZZZ value is reached is just negotiating tactics (things such as historic house sale prices, current mortgage rates, amount of work needed to the property etc.).

Ultimately, and I think this point is missed on here sometimes by various opinions stating "Offer 50% less, the market is crashing!!!", unless the sellers and buyers agree a value for the property, the transaction doesn't happen. Yes, the seller may be delusional and value the property far too highly, Yes, the buyer wants a bertie-bargain given the market conditions at the time. BUT, if an agreement isn't reached, the property don't sell. Again, the OP's situation highlights this perfectly. Seller has value too high (in OP's opinion), buyer wants to pay less, if no agreement, buyer moves on and buys another property, and seller sells (possibly) to someone else willing to pay the price.

[Deleted User]

I think it is worth considering the accuracy of £55 to £65k cost to put the faults right.  Clearly there are some major and costly repairs which are genuinely required.

However, do any of the identified 'faults' fit within the category that the property was priced accordingly? For example, I would have noticed an old boiler on viewing and assumed that a new one would either be required either soon, or in a few years if lucky. As such your original offer really ought to have factored this in. This was exactly what happened with my house and when the survey came back making this very observation, I had already factored it into my original offer and did not have to renegotiate.

Also, in surveys you will get speculation about feature x or y needing replaced at some point, but such observations are often non specific and said features can go on being functional for years to come. For example, remarks were made about the condition of roof tiles on our house, I was careful to check for any leaks on a rainy day before exchange, no works were required and there has simply been no leaks since we purchased. - An less helpful part of surveys is where they identify the need for ongoing repairs over time. Well, of course. And you would need to have an annual budget to cater for this, setting the budget slightly higher for an older house maybe.

Lastly, in terms of certain aspects of the survey, keep in mind that by replacing certain items or repairing certain features, you would end up with a new item. For example, in another recent thread, a buyer wants their vendor to replace a falling down fence for 6k. The most he should hope for is repairs to the current fence, the house was never advertised as being brand new and he could see the fence when viewing, the house was priced for its condition.

TheJP

warwick2001 said:

sheramber said:

Without a valuation it is what you think it is worth against what he thinks it is worth.  

Even with a valuation, it's still this. A seller will not sell unless he/she is in agreement with the amount offered by the buyer (original asking price, or revised amount after negotiation). Whilst the seller doesn't hold all the cards in this transaction, he/she holds the biggest one i.e. they own the property the buyer wants to buy.

OP's situation highlights this perfectly. The property, according to the seller, is worth XXXX. The buyer (OP) thinks it's worth YYYY. Unless they can reach ZZZZ (which both parties agree to), the house will not be sold. Everything else before the ZZZZ value is reached is just negotiating tactics (things such as historic house sale prices, current mortgage rates, amount of work needed to the property etc.).

Ultimately, and I think this point is missed on here sometimes by various opinions stating "Offer 50% less, the market is crashing!!!", unless the sellers and buyers agree a value for the property, the transaction doesn't happen. Yes, the seller may be delusional and value the property far too highly, Yes, the buyer wants a bertie-bargain given the market conditions at the time. BUT, if an agreement isn't reached, the property don't sell. Again, the OP's situation highlights this perfectly. Seller has value too high (in OP's opinion), buyer wants to pay less, if no agreement, buyer moves on and buys another property, and seller sells (possibly) to someone else willing to pay the price.

In this case i think if the OP had a documented value by a surveyor it would make it easier to reach an agreement. They are at a stalemate, the seller believes its priced right that includes the works that need doing. If the survey valued it at £30-50k less then the seller may come to the realisation they need to negotiate the price.

youth_leader

I agree that paying for the surveyor to value the property is invaluable.  I was very frustrated my buyer's mortgage lender valued my house at £0 when they wanted a further damp/timber survey. 

Unfortunately the damp/timber survey I'd instructed for the buyer was thrown out as inappropriate.  I wasn't able to find out what the house was valued at and because of all the stress, didn't engage my own surveyor to value for me.  I became angered by the buyer's constant chipping at the price and withdrew from the sale.