Help with PIP Award

olgadapolga

Hi, 

I'd appreciate anyone's help with this.

My daughter was awarded PIP for a number of reasons, some of which improved with a major improvement with her mental health. She duly notified them of the fact that she needed reassessing.

Some of her on-going issues relate to mobility, for example, she cannot find her way about as she has dyspraxia. Once she's learned a journey, it's fine but if I asked her to go somewhere unfamiliar, she would get seriously lost, even if it was to a different bus stop a few yards from our home. She has to get other bus users to help her work out which stop she needs to get out at, or help with directions (they literally have to point her in the direction she needs to go). She's always ringing us for help to find her way about.

Her re-assessed award has given her zero points for this. We feel that this is not right and want to appeal it.

The main issue is that I don't know much about appealing and she is currently at uni, almost a hundred miles away. My daughter has anxiety and this is already upsetting her (the letter only came this morning).

She has just about two weeks' window in which to deal with this as DWP given her a month from the date of the letter (which was dated 24 February 2023). DWP also sent the letter to the wrong address - they sent it to our address, not her address (she asked me to open it when I told her there was a letter for her).

What is the best way to go about this? The poor thing is stressing so much about it and I feel so useless!

Thank you.

tacpot12

Based on your description, I think your daughter should be awarded 10 points for mobility because she cannot travel to a new place without someone being with her. (My source is Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Assessment - Turn2us). It sounds like she needs help every time she attempts a new journey. The PIP Assessment should not be differentiating based on whether the 'someone' who is helping her is a stranger on a bus or in the street or someone she knows well - she either needs the help, or gets hopelessly lost if she can't get any help. Luckily, there are few in society who would ignore someone who was obvious distressed.

She needs to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, which she can do over the telephone on the PIP Enquiry Number. There is an IVR option (a number you type on your telephone keypad) you can use to say you disagree with a decision. It would be better if you could ring together and for you to describe the difficulties your daughter has wtih navigating, but this may be difficult unless your employer gives you a mobile phone with conference calling enabled (and you are allowed to use it for personal calls, although I would expect an employer to be sympathetic about this if consulted beforehand). She can also write to them at the address on the letter. It may be easier if you draft a letter for her, setting out all the point and asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration, email to her for her to print out and sign if this is something she can do reliably. She will need to write out the envelope and post it First Class. 

She does need to try to meet the deadline for requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration. 

If she is not successful, she might need to Appeal the decision, and if so, there is a lot of advice on the Citizens Advice Website here: Challenging a PIP decision - appealing against the decision - Citizens Advice  

Alice_Holt

I would recommend completing the MR form:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683380/if-you-disagree-with-a-decision-made-by-dwp.PDF

Keep a copy.  Sadly, the chances of the DWP changing a derision at this is slim, so prepare to go to tribunal.

Guide to the appeal process:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

Help with the MR form:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

poppy12345

tacpot12 said:

She does need to try to meet the deadline for requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration. 

With good reason you have 13 months to request the MR. You just need to make sure you tell them why you didn't request it within the first month. If they refuse, you just appeal to Tribunal.

olgadapolga

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, we really appreciate it. I'm going to go through the details with my daughter over the weekend so the information is ready to send on Monday morning. My daughter is stressing about it hugely, which is not helped by having four uni assignments and exams to prepare for so dealing with this over the weekend will get it out of the way.

Thanks again 

olgadapolga

Just to update, letter has been written and emailed to DD. She's checked it, made her amendments, will print it and send it tomorrow with certificate of posting. 

I have warned her that the MR probably won't go in her favour but that I will accompany her to the tribunal. She's stressing about it but there's nothing we can do once the MR has been sent (well, until we get a reply).

I have no idea who's notes DWP were reading whilst making the decision as very little of what they have said in the letter is right or reflects the difficulties my daughter faces on a daily basis.

Muttleythefrog

olgadapolga said:

Just to update, letter has been written and emailed to DD. She's checked it, made her amendments, will print it and send it tomorrow with certificate of posting. 

I have warned her that the MR probably won't go in her favour but that I will accompany her to the tribunal. She's stressing about it but there's nothing we can do once the MR has been sent (well, until we get a reply).

I have no idea who's notes DWP were reading whilst making the decision as very little of what they have said in the letter is right or reflects the difficulties my daughter faces on a daily basis.

All the best.... yes usually they make the same decision but sometimes not. 

The DWP decisions can be highly annoying in that they are written in a way that suggests this stranger knows your circumstances (or a family member) better than you do... and it doesn't help when you effectively challenge them and they repeat the nonsense as if you're a total idiot who doesn't know their own mind or reality. Corner cutting and buck passing (such as to their commissioned healthcare professional's report even when it contains clear errors) is no doubt common.

The good news is Tribunal panels tend to take their responsibilities very seriously and look at all relevant evidence including what the claimant says at the tribunal... successful appeal rates are good.

When you get the MR result back please report here if you can... and people can advise  as necessary if required.... not least I think surrounding any strategy for the tribunal in terms of describing the problems and issues of 'reliably' which may be pertinent to this case when considering what she is not able to do (possibly even the trip to the tribunal itself will be a great example to run through the difficulties, risks, support needed.. is in my mind for mobility activity)

olgadapolga

Muttleythefrog said:

olgadapolga said:

Just to update, letter has been written and emailed to DD. She's checked it, made her amendments, will print it and send it tomorrow with certificate of posting. 

I have warned her that the MR probably won't go in her favour but that I will accompany her to the tribunal. She's stressing about it but there's nothing we can do once the MR has been sent (well, until we get a reply).

I have no idea who's notes DWP were reading whilst making the decision as very little of what they have said in the letter is right or reflects the difficulties my daughter faces on a daily basis.

All the best.... yes usually they make the same decision but sometimes not. 

The DWP decisions can be highly annoying in that they are written in a way that suggests this stranger knows your circumstances (or a family member) better than you do... and it doesn't help when you effectively challenge them and they repeat the nonsense as if you're a total idiot who doesn't know their own mind or reality. Corner cutting and buck passing (such as to their commissioned healthcare professional's report even when it contains clear errors) is no doubt common.

The good news is Tribunal panels tend to take their responsibilities very seriously and look at all relevant evidence including what the claimant says at the tribunal... successful appeal rates are good.

When you get the MR result back please report here if you can... and people can advise  as necessary if required.... not least I think surrounding any strategy for the tribunal in terms of describing the problems and issues of 'reliably' which may be pertinent to this case when considering what she is not able to do (possibly even the trip to the tribunal itself will be a great example to run through the difficulties, risks, support needed.. is in my mind for mobility activity)

I have no doubt that I'll be back once we hear from DWP as this is completely new territory for us. 

The really stupid thing about all this is that her problems in this particular area, with the dyspraxia, can never get better. It's a lifelong problem, yet they said that her conditions had "improved". No, her mental health which was crippling her daily life had improved but the issues around being able to find her way around can never improve. She even got lost trying to get to the initial re-assessment appointment. That was after I had helped work out how to get there, down to bus stop numbers, train times, etc., and trying to direct her en-route over the phone.In the end I had to get her to ring them to say that she was going to be late, she got very distressed about the whole situation and then they said that she could then have a telephone appointment! She left two hours early because she was worried about being late and ended up wasting a whole morning plus a train fare.

It's a massive nightmare for her (and us) because she gets lost so often. I've had loads of phone calls where she says she's got lost - trying to figure out where she is using Google maps from another town is really difficult. Especially when she doesn't comprehend the concept of left and right. It's hard for us but so much harder for her.

Spoonie_Turtle

olgadapolga said:

Muttleythefrog said:

olgadapolga said:

Just to update, letter has been written and emailed to DD. She's checked it, made her amendments, will print it and send it tomorrow with certificate of posting. 

I have warned her that the MR probably won't go in her favour but that I will accompany her to the tribunal. She's stressing about it but there's nothing we can do once the MR has been sent (well, until we get a reply).

I have no idea who's notes DWP were reading whilst making the decision as very little of what they have said in the letter is right or reflects the difficulties my daughter faces on a daily basis.

All the best.... yes usually they make the same decision but sometimes not. 

The DWP decisions can be highly annoying in that they are written in a way that suggests this stranger knows your circumstances (or a family member) better than you do... and it doesn't help when you effectively challenge them and they repeat the nonsense as if you're a total idiot who doesn't know their own mind or reality. Corner cutting and buck passing (such as to their commissioned healthcare professional's report even when it contains clear errors) is no doubt common.

The good news is Tribunal panels tend to take their responsibilities very seriously and look at all relevant evidence including what the claimant says at the tribunal... successful appeal rates are good.

When you get the MR result back please report here if you can... and people can advise  as necessary if required.... not least I think surrounding any strategy for the tribunal in terms of describing the problems and issues of 'reliably' which may be pertinent to this case when considering what she is not able to do (possibly even the trip to the tribunal itself will be a great example to run through the difficulties, risks, support needed.. is in my mind for mobility activity)

It's a massive nightmare for her (and us) because she gets lost so often. I've had loads of phone calls where she says she's got lost - trying to figure out where she is using Google maps from another town is really difficult. Especially when she doesn't comprehend the concept of left and right. It's hard for us but so much harder for her.

Would it be helpful to have some kind of tracking app so she can share her location with you?  And/or what3words.  Not that it helps much with the directing once you know where she is, but to reduce that initial hurdle anyway.

Actually Google Maps has the facility to share location https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7326816?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform=Android
(Makes it sound *really* complicated but it's not, just a couple of taps.)

olgadapolga

Spoonie_Turtle said:

olgadapolga said:

It's a massive nightmare for her (and us) because she gets lost so often. I've had loads of phone calls where she says she's got lost - trying to figure out where she is using Google maps from another town is really difficult. Especially when she doesn't comprehend the concept of left and right. It's hard for us but so much harder for her.

Would it be helpful to have some kind of tracking app so she can share her location with you?  And/or what3words.  Not that it helps much with the directing once you know where she is, but to reduce that initial hurdle anyway.

Actually Google Maps has the facility to share location https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7326816?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform=Android
(Makes it sound *really* complicated but it's not, just a couple of taps.)

Oh my goodness, that's is brilliant thinking! I cannot believe that I didn't think of it - I use what3words and I had a tracking device on my phone for when I went on long bike rides. I cannot believe that I didn't connect those with helping my daughter. You're a genius!

I've been trying to find a journey planner for her. She really needs one that says things along the lines of "you need to get out of the bus at the next stop" and gives directions based on landmarks, not using left and right as most of them do. She has absolutely no concept of left and right, she describes it as being "all the same thing" (interestingly, she has a friend who also has dyspraxia and understands left and right but not up and down). My daughter knows that she writes with her right hand but still cannot connect this with writing hand = right. She has very poor short-term memory as well so forgets things virtually as soon as she's been told which is why it's so hard giving her directions - as soon as you say something, she forgets, so you have to repeat it multiple times and can only give one instruction at a time.

Despite her difficulties though, she's really intelligent and doing brilliantly from an academic viewpoint. It's just the day to day living that is so difficult for her. I don't think that her "world" is a  particularly fun place to be as people get very frustrated with her, just because they don't understand. I've told her to be upfront with people, and say that she has dyspraxia, what that means, how that affects her and that they need to be more patient/make adjustments for her.  

Muttleythefrog

olgadapolga said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

olgadapolga said:

It's a massive nightmare for her (and us) because she gets lost so often. I've had loads of phone calls where she says she's got lost - trying to figure out where she is using Google maps from another town is really difficult. Especially when she doesn't comprehend the concept of left and right. It's hard for us but so much harder for her.

Would it be helpful to have some kind of tracking app so she can share her location with you?  And/or what3words.  Not that it helps much with the directing once you know where she is, but to reduce that initial hurdle anyway.

Actually Google Maps has the facility to share location https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7326816?hl=en-GB&co=GENIE.Platform=Android
(Makes it sound *really* complicated but it's not, just a couple of taps.)

Oh my goodness, that's is brilliant thinking! I cannot believe that I didn't think of it - I use what3words and I had a tracking device on my phone for when I went on long bike rides. I cannot believe that I didn't connect those with helping my daughter. You're a genius!

Yeah I thought their suggestion a good one..... my own father is starting to have more difficulties driving around so mother is using tracking app to assist... he can pull in somewhere and call her to ask for help given where she knows he is. I'll probably plug myself in with my wife on such in due course as we try to venture out more into our new region of Cornwall... especially since I'll be headed hopefully to places where there may not be many people or much civilisation.

I'm just sitting here reading the description of her dyspraxia type issues (which I know not technically correct but to me I'm imagining to some degree with an autistic like manifestation) and then combined with short term memory issues.... and trying to think. I have mental health problems that make navigating outdoors incredibly difficult but I can work around that.. however it means having decent memory. Google streetview is something I use extensively to simulate walking outdoors... but I heavily rely on a mental north fixed compass that fits with my google earth view of places alongside landmarks (that can be subtle ones like an unusually named house or strange looking tree alongside the more conventional ones like church or pub). You mention poor short term memory... and I have difficulty taking in information in the immediacy so again revert back to longer term memory and planning... I'm not sure how good her memory is generally speaking. I can see you do try to lay out plans and I presume in written form... which is what I would suggest.

But... as you hear about the plans for war they go awry on first contact with enemy.. the same can be true of planning trips since reality is bloody horrible complex thing that throws unique curve balls in potentially all moments.... and even the fear of that I imagine can render plans hard to follow. I do think technology has offered a lot of possible help... and reassurance (having a dynamic map on my phone in my pocket is an emotional support probably more than practical)... and hopefully this can offer a way forward. I suppose if you follow the suggestion of Spoonie (and although somewhat invasive perhaps a live tracking app best if she's agreeable) then there is that emotional and practical reassurance that she can give or you can see her location at any time and from that assist with guidance. Possibly even something as basic as a notepad type app (colornote I use) where you can hold information about a plan or trip (or shopping list) that can be quickly referred to may also be helpful if not already used. It is reassuring that she does seem able to ask strangers for assistance on direction... people generally inclined to help.

It's unfortunate this PIP issue is 'sitting on the desk' and another example sadly of how disabled people are being failed.... a classic example of someone trying to move forward in life despite their disablements but finding the DWP being more hindrance than help..... trying to move beyond disability while having the state challenging you on whether such even exists. What is particularly annoying in this case to me is they've followed the rules to report changes in condition that could affect entitlement... and not that would favour them... but in response may well not have had shown the same integrity and as a result even risk re-triggering the very difficulties overcome. I'm sure many a disabled person would wish they could join this Twilight Zone world where black and white documents declaring you free from problems translated into a new reality.