Is work in Guernsey considered work in the UK ?

sanfairyanne

DullGreyGuy said:

sanfairyanne said:

SiliconChip said:

I'm willing to be corrected but as Guernsey is not a part of the UK I would doubt if working there qualifies as UK work (it has it's own tax system).

I suspect you're right. 

I think you need to back up a little bit as you are in danger of going down irrelevant rabbit holes.

What has the bank actually asked you to provide/prove?

Whilst banks have to operate within regulations there is a notable amount of interpretation available and there are varying shades of white that they can aim to be. If you've ever run your own company you will know very well that for certain things banks have a totally different interpretation of your position than the law or HMRC would. Try applying for a mortgage and you will be treated as a self employed person despite you legally being an employee of the company and HMRC not requiring you to fill in the self employed section of a self assessment tax return.

As others have said, your passport only proves your nationality and gives some indications of where you may have traveled to but some countries no longer apply physical stamps (eg Israel) or just dont stamp at all.

If they subsequently ask you to prove your residency then ask them what they accept as proof... it may be materially different to what the government considers acceptable. 

They asked me to prove my employment status from bank statements, also they literally wanted me to post my passport (not a copy) to their offices. I later found out that you can have the passport accepted via a Lloyds bank. All this would have been avoided had I taken my passport to the bank, but after ringing Lloyds Online Investments I was told not to worry. I then went away abroad (currently messaging from Argentina) and my family received a notice saying my account was frozen. I'm told that when I return if I send my passport to them my account can be re-opened. As I say, at the moment my trading account is frozen, however, oddly enough I'm told I can trade via telephone. 

sanfairyanne

Sarahspangles said:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens and/or no longer allow British ex-pats to hold their UK bank account.  So if either of those apply to you it may be time to move your investments.  Is staying with Lloyds really so important that you’d base decisions about residence and employment on this?

I assumed there must be accounts for ex-pats, I think it would be easier to have a bank account for just keeping your cash, but a trading account seems to be more problematic. I read that lots of people open such accounts only to have them closed down a few months later. As ever you read things online stating one thing, then you read something else discounting this or that.

Incidentally, I read on Lloyds website that in order to be eligible for an account you must reside in the UK or the Channel Islands. So surely if you have a Lloyds trading account as a resident of the Channel Islands it must be ok to go there for work.

Our terms of service state:

5.1 To be eligible for an account you must be:

 

(i) resident in the UK, or (unless your account is an ISA) Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man

Sarahspangles

DullGreyGuy said:

Sarahspangles said:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens and/or no longer allow British ex-pats to hold their UK bank account.  

Who's closed their accounts to non-British residents of the UK?

Thanks to Brexit banks have lost their ability to provide services into EEA countries by default and so absolutely they've withdrawn services from ex-UK residents that are now resident in the EEA (again not due to nationality)

I didn’t refer to non-British residents, the scenario I came across is where multi-national employees of a UK company were asked to work at an overseas site for a few months - as soon as they no longer held a UK tenancy they were asked to close the account even though their salary continued to be paid by a UK company and they might return within weeks.  

sanfairyanne

Lloyds Trading account stipulates this:

Our terms of service state:

5.1 To be eligible for an account you must be:

 

(i) resident in the UK, or (unless your account is an ISA) Jersey, Guernsey or the Isle of Man

So one would imagine that you can work in Guernsey. Or does that mean you can only reside in the Channel Islands if you have an isa. It's so damned ambiguous when your a thick stupid ignoramus like me! 

DullGreyGuy

Sarahspangles said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Sarahspangles said:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens and/or no longer allow British ex-pats to hold their UK bank account.  

Who's closed their accounts to non-British residents of the UK?

Thanks to Brexit banks have lost their ability to provide services into EEA countries by default and so absolutely they've withdrawn services from ex-UK residents that are now resident in the EEA (again not due to nationality)

I didn’t refer to non-British residents, the scenario I came across is where multi-national employees of a UK company were asked to work at an overseas site for a few months - as soon as they no longer held a UK tenancy they were asked to close the account even though their salary continued to be paid by a UK company and they might return within weeks.  

You stated:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens 

You didnt qualify where said non-British citizens were living which would therefore imply its universal given you followed it with an and/or statement (the or being the important one)

Not sure what you mean by "multi-national employees" but a UK resident generally wont lose their UK residency status for working overseas for a few months. This reitterates the point that the law and the banks may take a different view.

sanfairyanne said:

DullGreyGuy said:

sanfairyanne said:

SiliconChip said:

I'm willing to be corrected but as Guernsey is not a part of the UK I would doubt if working there qualifies as UK work (it has it's own tax system).

I suspect you're right. 

I think you need to back up a little bit as you are in danger of going down irrelevant rabbit holes.

What has the bank actually asked you to provide/prove?

Whilst banks have to operate within regulations there is a notable amount of interpretation available and there are varying shades of white that they can aim to be. If you've ever run your own company you will know very well that for certain things banks have a totally different interpretation of your position than the law or HMRC would. Try applying for a mortgage and you will be treated as a self employed person despite you legally being an employee of the company and HMRC not requiring you to fill in the self employed section of a self assessment tax return.

As others have said, your passport only proves your nationality and gives some indications of where you may have traveled to but some countries no longer apply physical stamps (eg Israel) or just dont stamp at all.

If they subsequently ask you to prove your residency then ask them what they accept as proof... it may be materially different to what the government considers acceptable. 

They asked me to prove my employment status from bank statements, also they literally wanted me to post my passport (not a copy) to their offices. 

Who is your current account provider and where are they domiciled? Assuming its a UK/Channel Isle bank then they will see payments coming in in GBP and are unlikely to have any other issues.

Where are you actually resident? I am guessing you entered Argentina as a tourist or some other form of non-residential visa just as we have done for similar durations in other Latin American countries.

sanfairyanne

I got in touch with Lloyds Chat division. I thought I'd add the conversation here to help anyone else who might come across this:

Me: it would be very good to know if working in Guernsey would be considered working in the UK and if I did could I still hold my isa and taxable accounts.

Chat: I have checked with our team and they have said that you can keep your ISA if you move to Guernsey but you can't contribute to it.

Me: Ok but if I move temporarily to Guernsey i.e. for 3 months during a tax year, surely I'd still be eligible to use my isa allowance when I'm back from the Channel Islands ?

Chat: Yes

Me: you are absolutely 100% certain of that?

Chat: I'm but I'll double check with our ISA specialist team so bear with me please.

Me: Please do, take your time.

Chat: My apologises, If an investor has a continuous application in place and they have been non-resident, there will always be a gap year as the period of non-residence must last for a whole tax year and no subscriptions will be possible for that gap year. So for example, if you returned in the tax year 23/24 you wouldn't be able to subscribe until tax year 24/25

Me: Ok just as well we checked.

sanfairyanne

DullGreyGuy said:

Sarahspangles said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Sarahspangles said:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens and/or no longer allow British ex-pats to hold their UK bank account.  

Who's closed their accounts to non-British residents of the UK?

Thanks to Brexit banks have lost their ability to provide services into EEA countries by default and so absolutely they've withdrawn services from ex-UK residents that are now resident in the EEA (again not due to nationality)

I didn’t refer to non-British residents, the scenario I came across is where multi-national employees of a UK company were asked to work at an overseas site for a few months - as soon as they no longer held a UK tenancy they were asked to close the account even though their salary continued to be paid by a UK company and they might return within weeks.  

You stated:

Many UK banks have closed accounts for people who are not British citizens 

You didnt qualify where said non-British citizens were living which would therefore imply its universal given you followed it with an and/or statement (the or being the important one)

Not sure what you mean by "multi-national employees" but a UK resident generally wont lose their UK residency status for working overseas for a few months. This reitterates the point that the law and the banks may take a different view.

sanfairyanne said:

DullGreyGuy said:

sanfairyanne said:

SiliconChip said:

I'm willing to be corrected but as Guernsey is not a part of the UK I would doubt if working there qualifies as UK work (it has it's own tax system).

I suspect you're right. 

I think you need to back up a little bit as you are in danger of going down irrelevant rabbit holes.

What has the bank actually asked you to provide/prove?

Whilst banks have to operate within regulations there is a notable amount of interpretation available and there are varying shades of white that they can aim to be. If you've ever run your own company you will know very well that for certain things banks have a totally different interpretation of your position than the law or HMRC would. Try applying for a mortgage and you will be treated as a self employed person despite you legally being an employee of the company and HMRC not requiring you to fill in the self employed section of a self assessment tax return.

As others have said, your passport only proves your nationality and gives some indications of where you may have traveled to but some countries no longer apply physical stamps (eg Israel) or just dont stamp at all.

If they subsequently ask you to prove your residency then ask them what they accept as proof... it may be materially different to what the government considers acceptable. 

They asked me to prove my employment status from bank statements, also they literally wanted me to post my passport (not a copy) to their offices. 

Who is your current account provider and where are they domiciled? Assuming its a UK/Channel Isle bank then they will see payments coming in in GBP and are unlikely to have any other issues.

Where are you actually resident? I am guessing you entered Argentina as a tourist or some other form of non-residential visa just as we have done for similar durations in other Latin American countries.

My account is with lloyds online share dealing. Lets not be confused, this is my trading account and NOT my current account; although I suspect by being out of the UK for too long I'm also falling foul of high street bank regulations. 

If I worked in Guernsey my pay would be in pounds and you're right Lloyds would likely not see anything, however if I was asked to prove my employment it would come up as being in Guernsey and I could NOT use my isa allowance if I worked in Guernsey (or other channel islands). 

MacPingu1986

OP - Guernsey is not part of the UK. It's an independent jurisdiction with its own laws and taxes (putting aside some quirky constitutional arrangements with the UK which arn't relevant to your query).

I would check in with your bank re what exactly they are requesting from a CDD/KYC perspective.

Re ISA - ISAs do not terminate if you leave the UK, the ISA stays in place but as non-UK resident you cannot contribute to it the tax year following the tax year in which you leave the UK as a tax resident. ie - if you cease UK tax residency in Jan 2023, you can contribute up until the end of the 22/23 tax year, but NOT contribute in the 23/24 tax year, unless your tax residency moves back to the UK later in that year.

https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/if-you-move-abroad

sanfairyanne

MacPingu1986 said:

OP - Guernsey is not part of the UK. It's an independent jurisdiction with its own laws and taxes (putting aside some quirky constitutional arrangements with the UK which arn't relevant to your query).

I would check in with your bank re what exactly they are requesting from a CDD/KYC perspective.

Re ISA - ISAs do not terminate if you leave the UK, the ISA stays in place but as non-UK resident you cannot contribute to it the tax year following the tax year in which you leave the UK as a tax resident. ie - if you cease UK tax residency in Jan 2023, you can contribute up until the end of the 22/23 tax year, but NOT contribute in the 23/24 tax year, unless your tax residency moves back to the UK later in that year.

https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/if-you-move-abroad

I now understand that I could hold a trading account with Lloyds but I could not make use of future isa allowances. I could of course keep whatever I have previously built up under the ISA umbrella.

robatwork

The banks are a little all-over-the-place with KYC in my experience. I suspect Lloyds want to know who you are, not just where you reside - hence the passport. 

I have many accounts and just for my own interest I decided to ignore all KYC requests from one particular major high street bank. If they closed down my account, it's fine. I'm no anarchist, just interested in how this whole process works. 

I've been ignoring the requests from this bank for many years, with no impact at all. I wonder why they bother.