have i been overcharged by octopus- need help understanding unit rates

baron777

hi
i am trying to work out if i have been overcharged by octopus, i used to have both gas and elec with them, and my tarriff was flexible octopus july 2021 v1
i have a smart meter, but since i moved to octopus i have had loads of problems getting them to connect to it, so i have to manual read the meters (but that's another issue), however this is the reason i switched to british gas last month, to try and get some functionality from the smart meters.
when i joined british gas they sent me an email saying that i was on the standard variable and the unit rates that i would be paying, would be
gas 10.334 Kwh
elec 33.83 per Kwh
which are the rates for the energy price guarantee, set by the government.
So i thought i would just check what octopus have been charging me, and the rates were different. after going through my bills this is what i have been charged
from 1st april 2022 - elec (day) 28.50
                                 elec (night) 20.37,
                                 and for gas 7.01
from 1st october -    elec (day) 39.65 (61.63 less price guarantee 21.98)
                                elec (night) 15.57 (25.69 less PG 10.12)
                                gas  9.84 (14.06 less PG 4.22)
from 1st jan 23   -    elec (day) 43.00 (84.17 less price guarantee 41.17)
                               elec (night) 16.89 (35.84 less PG 18.95)
                               gas  9.85 (16.27 less PG 6.42)

what is also confusing is the fact that they are charging me for day and night units, and i am on a smart meter, i do not have economy 7 storage heaters, i have a boiler and gas radiators.

is this right, or have i been overcharged?

thanks

colin



 

Spoonie_Turtle

Other than being on Economy 7 and evidently not realising it, what in there looks like overcharging to you?

(Gotta say this may be the first time ever anyone's switched away from Octopus to British Gas for smart meter connectivity!)

[Deleted User]

If Octopus couldn’t resolve your smart meter problems then I doubt that any other supplier would have an ‘oven-ready’ solution.

The key difference between Octopus and BG is that the Octopus tariff was E7 and BG is a single rate tariff. I struggle to see why you think you have been overcharged? What Octopus tariff did you sign up to?

Jyana

When you were on the E7 tariff, you were being charged at the same energy price guarantee price but it would have been set as an average over both the day and night time rates, which is why the day time one was over 33p. So no, you were not being overcharged as such, it just seems as though you did not require being on E7 if you have gas central heating. I assume you don't use the bulk of your electricity overnight?

pochase

So you had an E7 tariff with Octopus, most likely you signed up for it at some point.

The reason that BG changed you to single rate is very simple. They are unable to support E7 if the customer has a smart meter. If you really would need the E7 tariff switching to BG would have been a big mistake.

As you were on the SVT you will not have been overcharged, that is just not possible. What could have happened that E7 was the wrong tariff for you, and that you paid more than on a single rate tariff, but that would have been your decision to use this tariff, or that of the occupant of your home before you and you just continued the E7 tariff they decided to go on.

As @dolor already said, switching to BG to get smart meter sorted does not make any sense at all, there is hardly anybody better than Octopus getting smart meters working, and BG might be the worst as the E7 problem shows.

Raxiel

pochase said:

So you had an E7 tariff with Octopus, most likely you signed up for it at some point.

The reason that BG changed you to single rate is very simple. They are unable to support E7 if the customer has a smart meter. If you really would need the E7 tariff switching to BG would have been a big mistake.

As you were on the SVT you will not have been overcharged, that is just not possible. What could have happened that E7 was the wrong tariff for you, and that you paid more than on a single rate tariff, but that would have been your decision to use this tariff, or that of the occupant of your home before you and you just continued the E7 tariff they decided to go on.

As @dolor already said, switching to BG to get smart meter sorted does not make any sense at all, there is hardly anybody better than Octopus getting smart meters working, and BG might be the worst as the E7 problem shows.

If your meter is in the national database as E7, Octopus will always put you on the E7 version of whatever tariff you request from them by default. You can get the 'single price for two registers' version that costs the same as single rate, but you have to request it.

That even goes for internal switches. I was on the single price version of a fix last September when they helpfully moved everyone to the SVT following the announcement of the EPG, and they put me on E7 without asking. I had to contact them to get it changed.

baron777

hi thanks for the replies guys, maybe i havent been overcharged, and the problem is that i am being charged on an E7 tariff and the day rate is higher than than the single rate BG would charge.
with regard to the smart meter, for well over a year i have been trying to get octopus to sort this out, and keep getting fobbed off with excuses like this i received in June

So after looking over your account and speaking with a metering specialist, they have advised there is a Home Area Network (HAN) issue in your area. Your meter uses the Wide Area Network (WAN) and HAN to communicate with us, your supplier.

What this means for you, unfortunately as we there is no HAN we can't communicate with your meter. It is an industry wide issue that many suppliers are struggling with, and it is being looked into. We are are actively working towards a resolution and are working as fast as we can for those affected and have no immediate fix as of yet

i dont know anything about smart meters, and switching to B Gas was a last resort, maybe i have made a mistake but i was getting nowhere with octopus, they wouldnt even send anyone out to look at the meter, 

[Deleted User]

baron777 said:

hi thanks for the replies guys, maybe i havent been overcharged, and the problem is that i am being charged on an E7 tariff and the day rate is higher than than the single rate BG would charge.
with regard to the smart meter, for well over a year i have been trying to get octopus to sort this out, and keep getting fobbed off with excuses like this i received in June

So after looking over your account and speaking with a metering specialist, they have advised there is a Home Area Network (HAN) issue in your area. Your meter uses the Wide Area Network (WAN) and HAN to communicate with us, your supplier.

What this means for you, unfortunately as we there is no HAN we can't communicate with your meter. It is an industry wide issue that many suppliers are struggling with, and it is being looked into. We are are actively working towards a resolution and are working as fast as we can for those affected and have no immediate fix as of yet

i dont know anything about smart meters, and switching to B Gas was a last resort, maybe i have made a mistake but i was getting nowhere with octopus, they wouldnt even send anyone out to look at the meter, 

There is something wrong with the reply that has been sent. The HAN is a network that is established by the comms hub. The gas meter connects to a gas proxy meter built into the comms hub. The comms hub connects to the DCC network via a WAN connection. The electricity meter doesn’t need the HAN to send data to the comms hub.

Qn: are you seeing any information on the In House Display?

Qn: If you download the App BRIGHT, can you see any usage data?

Qn: Did Octopus ask the DCC to carryout a 15 minute remote comms hub disconnect? This is the logical first step: the next step is to send out an engineer to pull the main fuse for 15 minutes.

baron777

thanks dolor, i no longer have the IHD from octopus, and BG have not sent me one yet, so i have downloaded the bright app and will get this set up when i get home later, 
as previously stated, octopus were really unhelpful, just kept getting me to reset the IHD, but when i did, i lost all connections and have never been able to get it working again, 
thanks

pochase

You only get a IHD with the smart meter. If it breaks after 12 month or if you lose it you will not get a new one.

Either you use Bright, or you have to purchase a new IHD. 

[Deleted User]

baron777 said:

thanks dolor, i no longer have the IHD from octopus, and BG have not sent me one yet, so i have downloaded the bright app and will get this set up when i get home later, 
as previously stated, octopus were really unhelpful, just kept getting me to reset the IHD, but when i did, i lost all connections and have never been able to get it working again, 
thanks

There is no such thing as an Octopus smart meter and IHD, or a BG smart meter and IHD. These SMETS2 devices are supplier agnostic. A new supplier assumes responsibility for the existing smart meters on a change of supply. The DCC retains the responsibility for all comms hubs.

Resetting the IHD should do nothing more than reset the device. It is a bit like rebooting your computer: it should have no impact on your router.

To sign up to BRIGHT, you need your MPAN and the ID on the bottom of your existing IHD.