What is better for me, DLA or PIP? (I cannot claim Universal Credit)

Katers_83

whizzywoo said:

You cannot make a new claim for DLA.  If you live in England or Wales you can try claiming PIP, it is not means tested.  If you live in Scotland then the disability benefit to claim is Adult Disability Payment.

You should read up on the subject first.  It's not just a question of sending in doctors notes.  It depends on how your disabilities affect your ability to do certain things.

I'm not sure of the best websites to get good knowledge of them but someone else with more experience than me will come along to advise you.

Thank you. I did do a bit of searching and reading before posting, but I didn't want to do a deep dive into the body text in case I spent the age of a bible reading about a benefit that turned out to be unsuitable for some reason.

I live in England, so it seems DLA is out of the question.

poppy12345 said:

For working age people it's no longer possible to claim DLA. PIP has replaced this. Whether you're entitled to anything will totally depend on how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. See link. [CAB Link]

If your ESA claim started after end of December 2018 then it will be New style ESA, which is a contributions based benefit only. It's not possible to claim any Income Related ESA because this has been replaced by UC. Claiming PIP has nothing to do with entitlement to Income Related ESA because it doesn't exist.

When you were claiming UC your ESA would have been deducted in full.  You mention your rent is £500 are you living with parents or renting from a family member? What elements exactly did your UC include? Have you reported your health condition for UC and sent a fit note?

Have you had a work capability assessment yet for your ESA claim?

Thank you for the link, very handy.

It looks like I will be going down the PIP route. Yes, it is 'New-style ESA' starting from October 2022. The trouble with the Gov websites is they seem to be giving the impression that Income-based ESA still exists and that PIP or DLA is the path to it... hence me posting here (a better source of info on this subject). ... 'Income-based ESA' has gone... oh !!!!!!. Ok, thank you.

I live on my own, renting in self contained accommodation from a private landlord.

As for reporting my condition, both the ESA people and the UC people are aware of my conditions and have been given all the sick notes they've asked for.

After a few months, the ESA people didn't need any more notes from me, but the UC people still want to see them.

Looking at my payments from DWP, it seems I am still being paid the exact correct amount for my ESA, and UC has vanished. I have a letter from HMRC explaining that they are able to access UC (they never mentioned ESA), and they explained that it is by this method they have taken all my UC.

As for work capability assessments... I had a phone assessment and passed the test. After this point, they told me that I didn't need to send any more sick notes (for them / ESA).

HillStreetBlues said:

If you are currently paying them back, ring the overpayment department and ask for an reduced amount to be taken each month.
 

Excellent idea.. thank you !

HillStreetBlues said:

Not sure what benefits you do claim as bit unclear.
If you do get UC you should get free prescriptions if you are not working.

If not  try via low income
 [NHS Link]

Ah yes. Sorry for confusion. My meds are free, but I still buy 'CBD Oil' for my pain and 'Collagen (& other supplements)' to rebuild my back throughout the period of physio.

Nelliegrace said:

The PIP requirements are quite specific, things like can you cook a meal, dress yourself, walk a certain distance, manage your affairs. Most of them you can manage because you have to, you learn and adapt. I found the telephone discussion about claiming PIP helpful. 

Some of the questions seem gender biased. DH who is reasonably fit, could answer honestly that he cannot cook a meal. 
Most older women could cook, they would turn up in A&E almost moribund and when asked why they delayed would say, they had to do his dinner first. It could have been put on a several gravestones. 

(Removed by Forum Team)

Newcad said:

You can no longer make a new claim for Income Related ESA, you have to claim UC instead*.

You can no longer make a new claim for DLA (unless its for a child) you have to claim PIP instead.
To claim PIP you will need to have an assessment of how your conditions affect your abilities for 'Daily Living' and 'Mobility'

However what you say about UC is not right.

If you are claiming UC they can recover overpaid Tax Credits from it - but they are not allowed to take all your UC to recover overpaid Tax Credits.

Generally, unless there is something you haven't mentioned, that recovery is 15 per cent of your Standard Allowance.
That's the basic amount of Universal Credit you are entitled to before extra money for things like housing costs are added.
UC Housing Element for rent would not be reduced to pay off Tax Credits.
If the recovery is causing you hardship that you can ask for that recovery rate to be reduced, or even suspended.

Have you declared your rent to UC? Is a Housing Element included in your UC?

Next:
*Have you had a Work Capability Assessment yet for your CB ESA?
Your figure of £77/week say either you haven't one yet, or you have and were awarded the Work Related Activities Group.
Unless you are awarded Support Group CB ESA only lasts for 12 months and then stops paying - so when did you claim ESA?
Once you have been assessed and awarded an ESA group it also applies in UC.
If you are awarded ESA WRAG that is also applied as LCW in UC and you don't have to look for or apply for jobs.
If you are awarded ESA Support Group that is also applied as LCWRA in UC and pays extra money with UC.

So you should be entitled to UC, even if it is reduced to pay back overpaid Tax Credits.
Unless there is something that you havent mentioned.

I am already on UC, and my income from this is now £0 / week.

I will read/research and prepare for the PIP assessment.

Re "but they are not allowed to take all your UC to recover overpaid Tax Credits" this is exactly what they seem to be doing, and they informed me.

The UC are aware of my my rent (£500 / month) and have seen the evidence.

Re "Your figure of £77/week say either you haven't one yet, or you have and were awarded the Work Related Activities Group" thank you.

... Just looked at my old notes. Back in Nov 2022 the ESA woman told me I am going on ‘Work-related activity group’. She said that she knows that i am not well enough to work.

... Yes, I was told that my ESA will only last 12 months, and it runs out April. Thank you everyone for your help. I was amazed how many responses there were in such a short time period.

* * *

Thank you everyone for your help. I was amazed how many responses there were in such a short time period. 

There's always a chance that I missed some info. I will post back again if I have missed something.

poppy12345

Income Related ESA still exists but not for new claims. The information you seen on the Gov website is related to those that already claim Income Related ESA.

Did you challenge the ESA decision that placed you into the WRAG? If not have you taken a look at the descriptors for the Support Group? You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/support-group-descriptors

If you think at least one of those applies to you then you can request the Mandatory Reconsideration. (MR) As you're outside the 1 month deadline then you'll need to give a reason why you didn't request it within the first month. If they refuse then you just appeal to Tribunal.

Your ESA WRAG should apply to UC which would be LCW but as with ESA there's no extra money for this.

When applying for PIP most people have assessments which are mostly by telephone. Some are face to face or video call.

It seems like the debt you had with HMRC has been passed onto DWP to recover the money that's owed. You can contact debt management to ask them to reduce the amount you're paying back each month because of financial hardship. See link for details how to contact them. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-debt-management-performance-data/dwp-debt-management-customer-service-standards#contacting-debt-management

calcotti

Would you be willing to show the details of your UC statement to show how they have arrived at nil.

poppy12345

calcotti said:

Would you be willing to show the details of your UC statement to show how they have arrived at nil.

Just to add further.. if you do post this please make sure that all your personal information isn't showing.

Spoonie_Turtle

With the ESA deducted plus deductions for debt I can well see UC being wiped out, and maybe the Housing element too if it's just the shared accommodation rate (depending on age) in an area with lower rent costs? 

But I agree posting a UC statement with personal details redacted is definitely best to see what is actually happening.

calcotti

Spoonie_Turtle said:

With the ESA deducted plus deductions for debt I can well see UC being wiped out, and maybe the Housing element too if it's just the shared accommodation rate (depending on age) in an area with lower rent costs? 

Agree that is possible.

Katers_83

ayupmeduck said:

Nelliegrace said:

There, and I was asked if I could peel potatoes!

It must be difficult to find all of the right questions to assess if someone needs to receive financial assistance or if they just want it. 

I decided that it was not right for me. 

You are assessed on physically/cognitively being able to prepare a simple meal from fresh ingredients, chopping and peeling etc I think you are making it gender based.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Nelliegrace said:

Some of the questions seem gender biased. DH who is reasonably fit, could answer honestly that he cannot cook a meal. 
Most older women could cook, they would turn up in A&E almost moribund and when asked why they delayed would say, they had to do his dinner first. It could have been put on a several gravestones. 

No, it's a notional test of whether you are physically and mentally capable of cooking if you had to. 

It specifically excludes not cooking because you've just never tried or have someone to do it for you.  The only situation in which not knowing how to cook counts towards PIP is if someone is actually unable to learn how to do it.

Thanks guys... With PIP, looking at the questions they ask about our ability, it suggests that someone would have to live with me and help me with these tasks, in order for me to score enough points to qualify for PIP payments.

Does the DWP care if a PIP applicant struggles to perform the tasks mentioned in the test, yet is 'only just able to manage' and lives alone?

poppy12345

Katers_83 said:

Thanks guys... With PIP, looking at the questions they ask about our ability, it suggests that someone would have to live with me and help me with these tasks, in order for me to score enough points to qualify for PIP payments.

Does the DWP care if a PIP applicant struggles to perform the tasks mentioned in the test, yet is 'only just able to manage' and lives alone?

That's not correct. PIP is awarded based on the care you need, regardless of whether you receive that care or not. Lots of people live alone and claim disability benefits.

calcotti

Katers_83 said:

Thanks guys... With PIP, looking at the questions they ask about our ability, it suggests that someone would have to live with me and help me with these tasks, in order for me to score enough points to qualify for PIP payments.

The assessment is based on the difficulties you have. It doesn’t matter whether or not you actually get help you need.

Spoonie_Turtle

Katers_83 said:

ayupmeduck said:

Nelliegrace said:

There, and I was asked if I could peel potatoes!

It must be difficult to find all of the right questions to assess if someone needs to receive financial assistance or if they just want it. 

I decided that it was not right for me. 

You are assessed on physically/cognitively being able to prepare a simple meal from fresh ingredients, chopping and peeling etc I think you are making it gender based.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Nelliegrace said:

Some of the questions seem gender biased. DH who is reasonably fit, could answer honestly that he cannot cook a meal. 
Most older women could cook, they would turn up in A&E almost moribund and when asked why they delayed would say, they had to do his dinner first. It could have been put on a several gravestones. 

No, it's a notional test of whether you are physically and mentally capable of cooking if you had to. 

It specifically excludes not cooking because you've just never tried or have someone to do it for you.  The only situation in which not knowing how to cook counts towards PIP is if someone is actually unable to learn how to do it.

Thanks guys... With PIP, looking at the questions they ask about our ability, it suggests that someone would have to live with me and help me with these tasks, in order for me to score enough points to qualify for PIP payments.

Does the DWP care if a PIP applicant struggles to perform the tasks mentioned in the test, yet is 'only just able to manage' and lives alone?

Yes, that definitely counts.  This is where people often trip up and talk themselves out of applying because they 'can manage' (because they have to!) so understanding how it is assessed is crucial for people in this situation.

A really important principle with PIP is reliably:

For a descriptor to be able to apply to a claimant, the claimant must be able to reliably complete the activity as described in the descriptor.

2.2.2 Considering reliability involves looking at whether the claimant can complete the activity as described:

• safely – in a manner unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity

• to an acceptable standard {I don't know why they've not elaborated on this but it includes things like not dropping half your meal down yourself when trying to eat, cooking food thoroughly so it's safe to eat and edible, wearing clothing appropriate for the weather that are not inside out and done up properly, *without causing excessive pain/fatigue/breathlessness/etc.*, being able to wash all of yourself and rinse yourself thoroughly, walking that would be recognised as walking not shuffling or swinging both legs through on crutches, following a journey without arriving at your destination utterly worn out and zombified or having a panic attack, things like that.}

• repeatedly – able to repeat the activity as often as is reasonably required

• in a reasonable time period – no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a non-disabled person would normally take to complete that activity

2.2.3 This applies to every activity within the assessment. If an individual cannot reliably complete an activity in the way described in a descriptor then they should be considered unable to complete it at that level and a different descriptor selected.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1

This whole guide ^ is the official DWP guidance for PIP, well worth a read if you able to.

There can be a lot of information out there and it can be a bit overwhelming.  The CAB have a good general guide

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/how-decisions-are-made/

I've also been finding the Scottish ADP guide to be quite comprehensive - the people assessing for it may be better than the assessors for PIP, I don't know, but it appears the descriptors and fundamental principles are the same as for PIP.  It gives each activity its own document along with examples, so may be useful for PIP as well.

https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/guidance-resources/guidance/decision-making-guide  (scroll down about halfway for the adult one).