Transfer from West Yorkshire Pension Fund to NHS Pensions the 'right' move?

isushi

I am in the process of transferring from my (West Yorkshire Pension Fund) WYPF to NHS Pensions. However, before I progress I thought I would ask on here for any steer about whether or not this is the 'right' choice (recognising that you can't provide financial advice, etc.).

My current salary in the NHS is more than my previous salary in the WYPF if that makes a difference:

WYPF wages (approx dates to make numbers of years in a post match):

• 2009 to 2011 - £12k
• 2012 to 2015 - £22k 
• 2016 to 2018 - £28k
• 2019 to 2020 - £34k
• 2021 to 2021 - £42k

NHS wages

• 2022 to 2022 - £42k
• 2023 to 2023 - £48k

WYPF (Joined 2009 and left 2021) - Offering a transfer value of £73,414.75

• £28,610.75 as Outer Club of final salary benefits accrued to 31/03/2014
• £44,803 as Inner Club of CARE benefits accrued from 01/04/2014) 

NHS Pension Scheme (Joined 17/12/2021) - This will buy me the following:

• 2015 NHS Pension Scheme - Club Earned Pension Credit £5122.48 / Pensionable Membership 7 years 261 days
• 2008 Section of the 1995/2008 NHS Pension Scheme - Membership Credit of 4 years 126 days

I am over the 12 months to transfer, but I have agreement from NHS Pensions to honour the 12 month transfer as I started the process within the 12 months, but there were significant delays from NHS Pensions, WYPF and my NHS employer in responding.

xylophone

Just bear in mind (and it may not  matter to you) that while a transfer out from  LGPS ( funded public sector scheme) to a DC pension would be a possibility, it won't be from NHSPS (unfunded public sector scheme).

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/pensions-retirement/starting-a-pension/public-sector-pensions#:~:text=Many public sector pensions are,all fall into this category.

saucer

On first blush band without sorting through all the numbers, I would say that it is a good move. I’m assuming that the choice is between leaving it in the WYPF (is this lgps?) versus the NHS scheme, and certainly not taking the transfer value if this was offered. If so, the schemes are broadly similar, with both having final salary schemes now replaced by career average schemes, the lgps in 2014 and the nhs in 2015. The 2015 scheme is actually very generous but assumes you work until normal retirement age, but that is the same in the lgps. 

What I don’t know is what pension you would be entitled to in your original scheme, given your planned retirement age, and how much your deferred pension would increase with inflation until then. 

Then there is the McCloud judgement to factor in. 

Probably unhelpful thoughts then!

Silvertabby

The fact that OP has no R85 protections (joined LGPS after 2006) does simplify things.

So, leave benefits deferred with LGPS:
Benefits accrued up to 2014 have an NRA of 65.
Benefits will increase each year in line with CPI.
May be taken (subject to age and early payment reductions) while still working for NHS.

Transfer:
NRA of SPA
Annual increases (to CARE) CPI plus NHS revaluation.

There is no 'right or wrong' answer to your question, as every case is so different.  

hyubh

Silvertabby said:

The fact that OP has no R85 protections (joined LGPS after 2006) does simplify things.

So, leave benefits deferred with LGPS:
Benefits accrued up to 2014 have an NRA of 65.
Benefits will increase each year in line with CPI.
May be taken (subject to age and early payment reductions) while still working for NHS.

Transfer:
NRA of SPA
Annual increases (to CARE) CPI plus NHS revaluation.

There is no 'right or wrong' answer to your question, as every case is so different.  

Your 'transfer' part isn't correct. It's a Club transfer within 5 years of leaving the old scheme, so the final salary and CARE benefits are effectively transferred separately. The final salary part becomes a NHS 2008 scheme credit, so NRA 65 with a final salary link. The CARE part of the transfer then keeps the active member revaluation of the old scheme, i.e stays as straight CPI in this case.

hyubh

isushi said:

I am in the process of transferring from my (West Yorkshire Pension Fund) WYPF to NHS Pensions. However, before I progress I thought I would ask on here for any steer about whether or not this is the 'right' choice (recognising that you can't provide financial advice, etc.).

My current salary in the NHS is more than my previous salary in the WYPF if that makes a difference:

WYPF wages (approx dates to make numbers of years in a post match):

• 2009 to 2011 - £12k
• 2012 to 2015 - £22k 
• 2016 to 2018 - £28k
• 2019 to 2020 - £34k
• 2021 to 2021 - £42k

NHS wages

• 2022 to 2022 - £42k
• 2023 to 2023 - £48k

WYPF (Joined 2009 and left 2021) - Offering a transfer value of £73,414.75

• £28,610.75 as Outer Club of final salary benefits accrued to 31/03/2014
• £44,803 as Inner Club of CARE benefits accrued from 01/04/2014) 

NHS Pension Scheme (Joined 17/12/2021) - This will buy me the following:

• 2015 NHS Pension Scheme - Club Earned Pension Credit £5122.48 / Pensionable Membership 7 years 261 days
• 2008 Section of the 1995/2008 NHS Pension Scheme - Membership Credit of 4 years 126 days

I am over the 12 months to transfer, but I have agreement from NHS Pensions to honour the 12 month transfer as I started the process within the 12 months, but there were significant delays from NHS Pensions, WYPF and my NHS employer in responding.

A few points:

• I wouldn't take much notice of the CETV as it's essentially arbitrary from your point of view.
• I would guess the £5122.48 is either similar to, or a bit higher than, your WYPF CARE pension on leaving? If so, then the CARE pension transfer will essentially be neutral given the revaluation will be practically the same and the NPAs are identical.
• The main plus in transferring, then, will be to restore a final salary link to your 2009-2008 benefits. However that's only a plus in practice if your NHS pay outpaces your pay on leaving your previous job after inflation (left alone, your WYPF pension will revalue by CPI). So that's the main thing to consider, I think.

isushi

hyubh said:

isushi said:

I am in the process of transferring from my (West Yorkshire Pension Fund) WYPF to NHS Pensions. However, before I progress I thought I would ask on here for any steer about whether or not this is the 'right' choice (recognising that you can't provide financial advice, etc.).

My current salary in the NHS is more than my previous salary in the WYPF if that makes a difference:

WYPF wages (approx dates to make numbers of years in a post match):

• 2009 to 2011 - £12k
• 2012 to 2015 - £22k 
• 2016 to 2018 - £28k
• 2019 to 2020 - £34k
• 2021 to 2021 - £42k

NHS wages

• 2022 to 2022 - £42k
• 2023 to 2023 - £48k

WYPF (Joined 2009 and left 2021) - Offering a transfer value of £73,414.75

• £28,610.75 as Outer Club of final salary benefits accrued to 31/03/2014
• £44,803 as Inner Club of CARE benefits accrued from 01/04/2014) 

NHS Pension Scheme (Joined 17/12/2021) - This will buy me the following:

• 2015 NHS Pension Scheme - Club Earned Pension Credit £5122.48 / Pensionable Membership 7 years 261 days
• 2008 Section of the 1995/2008 NHS Pension Scheme - Membership Credit of 4 years 126 days

I am over the 12 months to transfer, but I have agreement from NHS Pensions to honour the 12 month transfer as I started the process within the 12 months, but there were significant delays from NHS Pensions, WYPF and my NHS employer in responding.

A few points:

• I wouldn't take much notice of the CETV as it's essentially arbitrary from your point of view.
• I would guess the £5122.48 is either similar to, or a bit higher than, your WYPF CARE pension on leaving? If so, then the CARE pension transfer will essentially be neutral given the revaluation will be practically the same and the NPAs are identical.
• The main plus in transferring, then, will be to restore a final salary link to your 2009-2008 benefits. However that's only a plus in practice if your NHS pay outpaces your pay on leaving your previous job after inflation (left alone, your WYPF pension will revalue by CPI). So that's the main thing to consider, I think.

Thanks for the advice! If this helps with the above in the WYPF Calculation detail it says:

• Outer Club Final Salary Benefits accrued to 31/03/2014 - £38,224.81 
• Inner Club CARE Benefits accrued from 01/04/2014 - £5148.22 (similar, but £26 higher than NHS Pensions)

My NHS pay will be significantly higher than my pay on WYPF. While my highest WYPF salary at  local authority was £42k, this was as a temporary secondment (to the NHS) so they will most likely only base it on the £34k in my contract. In the NHS, at a minimum, I am a Band 8a so even if I do not porgress any further - my NHS pay will go up to approx. £55k in about 4 years (not including any wage increases due to inflation).