Court claim for PCN on a sold car - ParkingEye

am1980

Hi, 
A friend purchased a car from me last year and I got a parking ticket 20 days later as he hadnt sorted the log book out until a month later. We have various forms of evidence for the sale - my insurance cancelled and his starting, transfer of money with "car" as the reference. Is this a legitmate form of defence (alongside the usual points to include in the defence), and as this is a civil court are there potential issues with the fact the friend didn't transfer the log book over before taking the car to private land and getting this PCN? (he took his son to practise driving on the empty car park and got the pcn.. not an excuse to use though). 

Thank you in advance. 

KeithP

You've had loads of time to get this transferred to the rightful person but now that you have a County Court Claim you must Defend yourself.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Fruitcake

It was your responsibility to inform the DVLA about the new keeper details. Have you done that yet since you could end up with a real penalty of £1000 if you don't?

If you didn't then you will have to sort this out with PE as it is now too late to name the driver, and you must inform the DVLA of the keeper change, which can be done online, asap.

Plan A is still a complaint to the landowner and your MP but since you have a live claim you will need to defend it as per the template defence.

Your para 2 should simply state that you were neither the keeper nor driver.

Your para 3 should state you had sold the car on X date but the DVLA database had not been updated at the time of the alleged event. State that you have proof of the sale etcetera.

No evidence goes with the defence.

Coupon-mad

Why didn't you tell ParkingEye last year?

am1980

Thank you. 

Issue date : 13th Feb @KeithP

I thought I'd ignore it last year as one of us (either me or my friend) was going to have to deal with this situation at some point so I presumed I'd take that responsibility @Coupon-mad ..maybe that was the wrong decision but we're here now. In hindsight I should have given it more thought.

@Fruitcake Yes it was done around a month after the sale. There is no valid explanation for this other than life gets in the way; the insurance was taken out by them, cancelled by me, new tax etc and money was sent on the day of sale prior to this PCN. Plenty of evidence for that. I understand that no evidence goes with the defence, thank you. 

I will try complaining to the land owner. Do you feel that if it goes to court this opens a bigger can of worms due to the logbook issue? Also if I succeed at court, will proceedings them move to my friend, or is that not possible as they did not send the PCN to them within a certain timeframe? 

KeithP

am1980 said:

Issue date : 13th Feb

With a Claim Issue Date of 13th February, you have until Monday 6th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. That's just a couple of days away. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Warning: If you fail to file an Acknowledgment of Service before 4pm on Monday 6th March then your Defence becomes due on that date.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 20th March 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Umkomaas

Do you feel that if it goes to court this opens a bigger can of worms due to the logbook issue? 

The judge will only be determining whether you owe PE any money. 

he took his son to practise driving on the empty car park and got the pcn

Ah, the good old days when you could rock up to supermarket car park and put little Johnny through his paces at the wheel!  They've all but gone. Spot an ANPR camera, turn around. They are almost everywhere!

Fruitcake

am1980 said:

Thank you. 


@Fruitcake Yes it was done around a month after the sale. There is no valid explanation for this other than life gets in the way; the insurance was taken out by them, cancelled by me, new tax etc and money was sent on the day of sale prior to this PCN. Plenty of evidence for that. I understand that no evidence goes with the defence, thank you. 

I will try complaining to the land owner. Do you feel that if it goes to court this opens a bigger can of worms due to the logbook issue? Also if I succeed at court, will proceedings them move to my friend, or is that not possible as they did not send the PCN to them within a certain timeframe? 

In that case my suggestions for your para 2 and 3 of the defence template still stand. I hope you understand the reason for wording para 3 the way I did.

Theoretically, if you win the case it may be possible for the claimant to issue a new PCN to the new keeper, but that will be far too late for keeper liability to apply, and they could only do this if they know the new keeper's identity.
The PPC can't ask the DVLA a second time for keeper details, and you are not obliged to give it. Be careful to redact the surname and address of the new owner on any sale documents that you want to rely on as evidence.

am1980

I'm confused as to what template to use for ParkingEye, as it differs to other companies. I've searched other parkingeye winning examples but they don't have any points relevant. Are none of the following points of the 'main' template useful?

1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars.

 

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. I was neither the keeper or the driver

3. The vehicle, registration number XXXX was sold on X June 2022. The DVLA logbook was updated to new keeper on X July  2022. I have evidence of the sale, including financial transaction, insurance cancellation, new keeper’s insurance and photographs of the new keeper collecting the vehicle.  

4. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  To pre-empt the usual template responses from this serial litigator: the court process is outside of the Defendant's life experience and they cannot be criticised for using, in part, pre-written wording suggested by a reliable online help resource. The Claimant is urged not to patronise the Defendant with (ironically template) unfounded accusations of not understanding their defence....... etc 

B789

am1980 said:

I'm confused as to what template to use for ParkingEye, as it differs to other companies. I've searched other parkingeye winning examples but they don't have any points relevant. Are none of the following points of the 'main' template useful?

1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars.

 

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. I The defendant was neither the registered keeper or the driver

3. The vehicle, registration number XXXX was sold on X June 2022. The DVLA logbook was updated to new keeper on X July  2022. I The defendant have has evidence of the sale, including financial transaction, insurance cancellation, new keeper’s insurance and photographs of the new keeper collecting the vehicle.  

4. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  To pre-empt the usual template responses from this serial litigator: the court process is outside of the Defendant's life experience and they cannot be criticised for using, in part, pre-written wording suggested by a reliable online help resource. The Claimant is urged not to patronise the Defendant with (ironically template) unfounded accusations of not understanding their defence....... etc 

You should use the full template appended to your paragraphs 2 & 3 as advised. I have just highlighted a couple of corrections above (strikethrough removed and highlighted added) as your defence should be written in the third person.

You mention the dates that you sold the car and the date you updated the details with the DVLA. However, what was the date of the PCN issue? You possibly will be advised to elaborate on this for clarity to show you had nothing to do with this PCN as either RK or driver.

The purchaser also has an obligation to report the change of ownership to the DVLA which is outside the control of the seller. 

Castle

KeithP said:

am1980 said:

Issue date : 13th Feb

With a Claim Issue Date of 13th February, you have until Monday 6th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. That's just a couple of days away. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Warning: If you fail to file an Acknowledgment of Service before 4pm on Monday 6th March then your Defence becomes due on that date.

OP:-
Have you filed an AOS?