Neighbours car parked in front of mums house caused a break-in

youth_leader

I'd advertised I live alone by mistake diystarter7,  by having a single chair out the front.  I've had this horrible balance problem since September and used to sit on it during my dog's late night ablutions.  I only realised after I'd answered the door to an aggressive cold caller - chair has gone, I speak to people out of the window now.

Section62

diystarter7 said:

Facts indicate that almost 100% of intruders will run once the larm has been set off, so you are safe

Is there any evidence to support that claim, or is it just a figure you've made up for discussion purposes?

What are these "Facts"?

One of the well known methods of operation for thieves/burglars is to deliberately set an alarm off and then wait to see what happens.  In many cases nobody will turn up or do anything.  I'm not going to claim as "Fact" any specific %age of intruders who will use that method, but I'd be confident the %age will be greater than what is left over from the "almost 100%" you claim will run off.

Alarms have their uses, but making unsubstantiated claims about the effectiveness of alarms is potentially misleading and not good advice.  If there is a reliable source for your "facts" then please share, so we can have a discussion about how accurate and applicable they are in situations like the OP's.

paul2louise

SadieO said:

ThisIsWeird said:

paul2louise said:

Thanks for replies, Yes the car was not parked on her drive but outside the front of her house. Yes he was polite to ask to park there. She used to have 2 cars and her partner passed away so didnt need the space at the front so the neighbour asked could he parked there. I think he doesnt park his car outside his house because he is on a busier road and she lives on a cul de sac just off this road.Yes there are assumptions but the police spent over 2 hours with my mum and neighbour and explained to them that they had strong feeling that it was the gang they were chasing in the area who were stealing the Golf cars. They couldnt get enough details from the CCTV unfortunately as they were hooded and its was dark but there were several of them. 

It is perfectly reasonable, then, for your mum to suggest they no longer park there.

Is it though? What if someone else with a car that is desirable to the next lot of scumbags comes along and parks there, as anyone is entitled to do on a public road? 

If a stranger had parked there, would mum be trying to find out who they were, in order to pin some responsibility for the break-in onto them? 

OP, I'm sorry that your mum (and the other victims) went through that but I think it is inappropriate to claim (as per your post title) that the neighbour "caused" this.

she didnt claim it was the neighbours fault, it was the police that asked her if she owned the golf and claimed that was what the gang were trying to pinch. She didnt even give it a thought until they mentioned it

paul2louise

youth_leader said:

I am so sorry your Mum experienced this. And sorry the car owning neighbour was so lacking in empathy for your Mum's distress.  Has your Mum's road got Neighbourhood Watch?

I am a 65 year old widow and since my husband died, always relied on my dog to be my burgular alarm.  Very sadly he passed last October at the age of 14.  I have a bungalow and have considered getting a burgular alarm, but I'm nervous of how I'd react if it did go off.  I am going to have a Ring doorbell.  I've got window locks, don't display anything of value near the windows, and have just got a 'Pat Lock' for my patio doors.  I've always been nervous because as a kid I watched from my bedroom window as my Dad tackled a burgular at our back door, the burgular hit my Dad on the head with the jemmy he was using to break in.  Luckily my Dad recovered from the fractured skull but lost his sense of taste for nearly two years.

they used to be in neighbourhood watch and she was one of the coordinators but it packed in recently. She does have an alarm but tends to use it when she is out not overnight. She did have some problems with it. Not sure where she is with it now and if she uses it. But it didnt put them off trying. 

Exodi

(Removed by Forum Team)

Exodi said:

I think an alarm is by far the best option. I have one on my own house, and if a door is opened while the alarm is set, there is a large audible beeping giving you ~30 seconds to enter the code. If you don't enter it, the external siren goes off - which I've witnessed first hand and it is truely deafening, there's no way a burglar would continue to break in with that going off.

For £10k cash I'm sure you'd find a burgler willing to take the risk.  If they 'know' there was that amount of cash kept in the property and where it was then it would be relatively low risk to break in, check that location and then get away, long before anyone responds to the alarm.  An alarm going off will deter a casual burgler from checking out a property on the off-chance there is something valuable inside, but for those that know there is something worth getting and an approximate location, then the noise won't necessarily stop them.

In the scenario that a burglar happens to know the exact location of the item they plan on robbing, then yes, an alarm may not be as effective as it otherwise would.

However, in the case that the burglar doesn't know the location of the item (such as the example from this thread), it will absolutely be an additional deterrent.

I had the (dis)pleasure of witnessing my external siren go off when my the internal battery malfunctioned. It was echoing up and down the streets, my ears were ringing and I could barely hear my partner talk - the neighbours were very quickly on their front doors in their dressing gowns (my partner had to assure them we weren't burglars).

That's not to say that alarm systems will prevent all burglaries, but it's a good start.

paul2louise said:
She does have an alarm but tends to use it when she is out not overnight. She did have some problems with it. Not sure where she is with it now and if she uses it. But it didnt put them off trying. 

I don't want to be mean, but she does not have an alarm if she doesn't use it or it doesn't work.

An alarm that isn't on obviously isn't going to put off someone breaking in. If it was on, maybe it might have.

EssexHebridean

Section62 said:

diystarter7 said:

Facts indicate that almost 100% of intruders will run once the larm has been set off, so you are safe

Is there any evidence to support that claim, or is it just a figure you've made up for discussion purposes?

What are these "Facts"?

One of the well known methods of operation for thieves/burglars is to deliberately set an alarm off and then wait to see what happens.  In many cases nobody will turn up or do anything.  I'm not going to claim as "Fact" any specific %age of intruders who will use that method, but I'd be confident the %age will be greater than what is left over from the "almost 100%" you claim will run off.

Alarms have their uses, but making unsubstantiated claims about the effectiveness of alarms is potentially misleading and not good advice.  If there is a reliable source for your "facts" then please share, so we can have a discussion about how accurate and applicable they are in situations like the OP's.

If it was anywhere near as high as "almost 100%" then it would be extremely strange that the police advice wouldn't simply be for every household to have an alarm, so I would suspect that figure is quite a wide-of-the-mark speculation - the evidence pointing to it - if from a reliable source - will be interesting to read when it is forthcoming. 

On the subject of alarms generally I found this article on the subject and bears out what I had been told previously on the subject by someone working in the legal profession with some experience in criminal law - namely that the best person to give you advice on burglary avoidance is someone who has "inside" experience and has now become poacher-turned-gamekeeper! : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/18/former-burglars-barking-dogs-cctv-best-deterrent

Just saying "an alarm" is also probably too wide ranging. A monitored alarm will be more of a deterrent than a straightforward bells-only one but will also be more expensive and of course have ongoing subscription costs. As already said the alarm needs to be set in the first place to be effective. A lot of people may also assume that once an alarm is installed then that's it, they just leave it to do its thing for them, but the recommendation is that an alarm is checked and serviced annually as well - I wonder how many actually get that treatment? A lot also depends on the area and the neighbours too I imagine - in our area for example if we hear someone's smoke alarm going off - never mind an intruder alarm - we always investigate whereas in an area of more affluent larger properties where people rarely interact with their neighbours that may not happen, or may be limited to a glance out of the window to see if anyone can be seen behaving suspiciously - but of course if someone is already inside the house, there possibly won't be anything to see.  

GDB2222

youth_leader said:

I am so sorry your Mum experienced this. And sorry the car owning neighbour was so lacking in empathy for your Mum's distress.  Has your Mum's road got Neighbourhood Watch?

I am a 65 year old widow and since my husband died, always relied on my dog to be my burgular alarm.  Very sadly he passed last October at the age of 14.  I have a bungalow and have considered getting a burgular alarm, but I'm nervous of how I'd react if it did go off.  I am going to have a Ring doorbell.  I've got window locks, don't display anything of value near the windows, and have just got a 'Pat Lock' for my patio doors.  I've always been nervous because as a kid I watched from my bedroom window as my Dad tackled a burgular at our back door, the burgular hit my Dad on the head with the jemmy he was using to break in.  Luckily my Dad recovered from the fractured skull but lost his sense of taste for nearly two years.

I'll just say what we do, in case it helps.

We set the burglar alarm when we go out. When we return, the fact it hasn't gone off is quite reassuring, as it (hopefully!) means that there are no intruders inside the premises.

That doesn't necessarily help if there are intruders hiding in the shrubbery, waiting to rob us of our Rolexes at knifepoint. We deal with that issue by not having Rolexes. 

We don't set the alarm when we are in the house, so we haven't had to think what we would do if the alarm went off whilst at home. But we do have a panic alarm button by the bed, and another by the front door.

Not the same as your old dog, but how about getting another one? 

youth_leader

Thank you very much GDB2222. 

I have always been nervous because I witnessed the burgular attacking my Dad, and my fear increased when my husband died and I was left alone in an isolated house with four entrances. I was taking a knife to bed at one point, then realised I'd probably turn to a jelly and the intruder would use it on me.  Moving to this tiny bungalow with neighbours was a good move.

I think I should have an alarm installed,  and also a panic alarm button.  When the young man was being aggressive at the front door I was worried he might push past me, the single chair outside signalling I was alone. I have a modern front door which I think is plastic, and will investigate whether it's possible to attach a chain.

I would love another dog, but disliked the evening walks, he still wanted to go out for a sniffari even in his last week.    

EssexHebridean

Sounds like a chain is a must for you youth_leader as reassurance if nothing else -  although they are of course possible for someone to break if they are determined it would certainly put off someone "insistent" in the way of a cold caller who wanted to try to insinuate themselves inside.  There is some information here about fixing chains to UPVC doors https://www.locksmiths.co.uk/faq/door-chain-most-secure/ (although I'm always cautious of trusting information from outlets that ultimately want to sell you things, that one does seem to have some useful general information!) 

On the dog side of things, the compromise my Mum has reached with hers since Dad died is that she gets a walk in the morning, a walk in the afternoon, but the after dark one is a "splash & dash" pitstop - and of course a new-to-you dog might also be perfectly obliging about simply going into the garden at night, assuming you have a garden that is dog-secure? 

(Sorry to the OP for having diverted the thread - good that their /their Mum's experience is allowing others to talk about concerns though they will hopefully agree)