Correct NI Gap Filling Help.... 1 March at 7:32PM edited 1 March at 7:36PM in Pensions, annuities & retirement planning 15 replies 552 views

invisible_member

Hi all, 

Nightmare at the moment with contacting Future Pension Centre as we all know.....

Therefore was hoping for some confidence in how I should proceed to get (hopefully) max pension....

I retire in September of this year at 66 (female)

• Headline amount of pension forecast ?   

• How many years available to pay going forward

Estimate based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2022 £148.12
Forecast if you contribute until 5 April 2023 £153.41
The most you can increase your forecast to is £179.86 

• Number of full NI years prior to 2016

24 

• Number of full NI years post 2016

4 from Specified Adult Childcare Credits 2017-2018, 2018-2019, 2019-2020, 2020-2021 (also, awaiting 2021-2022 to be accepted, hopefully) 

• What past years are available to pay and for how much

2006-2007, 2007-2008, 2008-2009, 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012, 2012-2013, 2013-2014, 2014-2015, 2015-2016, 2016-2017
I believe all years are £824.20 except 2013-2014 @ £792.50 (2 weeks NIC), 2014-2015 @ £792.50 (2 weeks NIC)    
 

• Whether there is a COPE amount mentioned and if so what it is (it should show a link to it if there is something along the lines of 'like many others at some point you were contracted out of the additional state pension')

No COPE amount mentioned

Firstly, I do not understand why it states it is not possible to get to maximum pension and be one year short?
As previously self employed, I can only assume it is because it is stating on (2011-2012 and prior, for months now) "We are checking this year to see if it counts towards your pension. We’ll update your record when this is finished, you do not need to do anything." 

Including the two cheaper years, my plan was to purchase 6 years, being 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012, 2012-2013, 2013-2014, 2014-2015, which including the 2021-2022 from Specified Adult Childcare Credits  if accepted would make the 35 years....

This would leave me a couple of more recent years still available to purchase if need be once the benefit of going back further finishes in April.....

No contributions have been made for the 2022-2023 period

Yesterday, I got the 18 digit code already for the intended purchase of the  6 years.... 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! 

molerat

As previously self employed, I can only assume it is because it is stating on (2011-2012 and prior, for months now) "We are checking this year to see if it counts towards your pension. We’ll update your record when this is finished, you do not need to do anything."

That is your problem. As far as the computer is concerned those years don't exist and are not used in the calculation.

Did HMRC specify which years they will allocate your payments to ? Did you query the "checking" years ?

invisible_member

molerat said:

As previously self employed, I can only assume it is because it is stating on (2011-2012 and prior, for months now) "We are checking this year to see if it counts towards your pension. We’ll update your record when this is finished, you do not need to do anything."

That is your problem. As far as the computer is concerned those years don't exist and are not used in the calculation.

Did HMRC specify which years they will allocate your payments to ? Did you query the "checking" years ?

Yes, I specified the 6 years as quoted above, from 2009-2010 to 2014-2015 period, they even came to the same balance to pay....they just said, ohh that just says that because of self employed period.......I had previously wrote in to see if I could use class 2 rather than class 3 but got turned down, only showed this "checking" after I had wrote in and not before....  

molerat

If you were self employed at the time you should be able to pay class 2.  HMRC were giving out the wrong information stating it was only those overseas that could pay the pre 2016 years and refusing to allow class 2 from others. Their own  National Insurance Manual and the Social Security Act states otherwise. They have admitted this and refunded some people the excess class 3 they paid.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/national-insurance-manual/nim72270

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/1004/regulation/61B

invisible_member

molerat said:

If you were self employed at the time you should be able to pay class 2.  HMRC were giving out the wrong information stating it was only those overseas that could pay the pre 2016 years and refusing to allow class 2 from others. Their own  National Insurance Manual and the Social Security Act states otherwise. They have admitted this and refunded some people the excess class 3 they paid.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/national-insurance-manual/nim72270

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/1004/regulation/61B

Hmmm, I am going to give that a good read and come back on this, you will see my previous post (s) was in this regard and have fought tooth and nail over this, I spend hours writing backwards and forwards as I believed from research this to be the case, I wonder How I approach this now? It seems I have to make 30 years before 2016, which would be the missing 6 years, just choose earlier class 2 ones.....I have 4 but should have 5 post 2016....does this work for the full new state pension 30 prior and 5 post 2016? 

molerat

The years do not need to come from any specific time period, any year will add the same amount as your starting amount looks like it is under the new rules meaning you can go up to 35 . You need £185.15 - £148.12 = £37.03 / £5.29 = 7 years to fill to the max, deducting your forthcoming granny credit leaves 6 and those 6 SE years at class 2 would cost you £982.80.  Even if your starting amount was under the old rules those 6+1 would take you to £181.79, £3.36 short so would need another year but still a lot cheaper than 6 at class 3 rates.  Your big problem is of course the timescale now we are very close to the cut off.

invisible_member

Thanks so much molerat, 

I wonder why they did not quote me the class 2 amounts on the years that were indeed the self employed years as part of the 6 I had arranged on the 18 digit reference....

Would it be a different process to get the backdated class 2 over class 3, or still same phone call do you know?

Maybe worth getting 7 years or possibly even 8 years at the class 2 rate, curious to know what you would do?....

Many thanks again   

molerat

I think the big problem is a lack of training, I have found on a few occasions that I knew more about things than the operator.  I don't know the correct procedure but the first point of action would maybe be querying "why can I not pay class 2 for those years".  When they give a reason you can come back with "but the pension act 2001 regulation 61b clearly states ....... "  I suspect it may be a misinterpretation of para 5, the 2019 clause, but that is the same as for class 3 and purely relates to the price paid.  Have you ever been given an actual reason why you cannot pay class 2 ?

invisible_member

Well, the first letter we got back (after questioning backdating class 2 in April 2022) stated that they were not informed of my self employment for the whole period, even though I was a partner and sent tax returns, my husband paid class 2 at the time, however, I was advised (wrongly) I did not need to.....They said that I should have paid for the period but will not insist that I pay them now (even though I wanted to). They also reiterated later in the letter and added class 2 contributions for the period 1989-2013 were time barred for benefit purposes.....In other words, if I did pay them, they would not count (at least they accepted my self employed status)......This was May 2022.

After further complaining, I received another response saying that I can only pay back 6 years class 2 (was not self employed then)....again class 2 paid back more than 6 years do not count for state pension and benefits. They stated that I had not registered as self employed with the national insurance office and therefore never billed, small income exemption would have needed a small earning exemption certificate.....This was September 2022 (so not too long ago)....

This led me not to pursue any longer as would not count for any future pension....     

molerat

They also reiterated later in the letter and added class 2 contributions for the period 1989-2013 were time barred for benefit purposes.

Incorrect - reg 61b ( well maybe back to 1989 but back to 2006-07 is not barred)

After further complaining, I received another response saying that I can only pay back 6 years class 2 (was not self employed then)....again class 2 paid back more than 6 years do not count for state pension and benefits

Incorrect - reg 61b

invisible_member

molerat said:

That is the incorrect assertion that HMRC were making.  Reg 61b clearly refutes that assertion.

Thank you so much, I will call tomorrow, maybe try future pensions first, then HMRC, have to see how it goes and hopefully get a reference number for class 2 over class 3........I think, if the worse comes worst (due to time limitations), buy back years needed, ALL within the self employment period at class 3, then fight at my leisure to get the difference refunded, not sure if that would be feasible!

I will post back tomorrow with update....