No fault accident, but not my car

HighContrast

Hi all,

I was driving my mum's car whilst she was in the passenger seat (i.e. permission given to drive the vehicle). Sat stationary at a set of traffic lights a car drove into the back of us, the driver had either been distracted or as she claimed her foot slipped on the brake pedal.  We exchanged some partial details at the scene, I was a bit panicked at the time.

Anyway whilst initially the damage looked cosmetic, it was only upon further inspection later it had caused enough damage to the rear end of the car that the boot could no longer could be shut.

I am/was not a named driver on my mum's policy but as I have fully comp on my own vehicle I understand I can claim against the other driver (third party) as it was a no fault claim from my point of view. (feel free to correct any of my assumptions btw).

I raised a claim with my insurer, the partial details I think were enough etc,  but now things seems to have come to a dead end, i.e. it doesn't appear that the third party has told her insurer as I have not had any contact from her insurer.I may be misunderstanding it all as I've never had to make a claim before but because it's not my vehicle and therefore not fully comp, i get the impression I need to do the legwork here?

My insurer has said to use the motor insurance database to find her insurance company, then (I think)  use a solicitor (preferably) or accident management company?

(My insurer also mentioned uninsured loss? Not sure what they meant here)

Alternatively(?) I was told to get an estimate for the work, contact the third party directly ( i have her phone number) and agree to get her to cover repair costs, with everything in writing.

I'm a little confused how best to proceed here. I guess another call to my insurer is needed.

Note the car is not worth much and would probably be written off.

DullGreyGuy

HighContrast said:

I am/was not a named driver on my mum's policy but as I have fully comp on my own vehicle I understand I can claim against the other driver (third party) as it was a no fault claim from my point of view. (feel free to correct any of my assumptions btw).

I raised a claim with my insurer, the partial details I think were enough etc,  but now things seems to have come to a dead end, i.e. it doesn't appear that the third party has told her insurer as I have not had any contact from her insurer.I may be misunderstanding it all as I've never had to make a claim before but because it's not my vehicle and therefore not fully comp, i get the impression I need to do the legwork here?

My insurer has said to use the motor insurance database to find her insurance company, then (I think)  use a solicitor (preferably) or accident management company?

(My insurer also mentioned uninsured loss? Not sure what they meant here)

Alternatively(?) I was told to get an estimate for the work, contact the third party directly ( i have her phone number) and agree to get her to cover repair costs, with everything in writing.

I'm a little confused how best to proceed here. I guess another call to my insurer is needed.

Note the car is not worth much and would probably be written off.

Firstly, not all comp policies include Driving Other Cars... it used to be the vast majority but the numbers have been reducing every year. So double check next time rather than assume.

If you do have DOC cover then on any normal policy it only covers third party risks - ie if someone sues you for causing damage to their vehicle. It provides no cover for damages done to your vehicle or to attempt to recover losses from third parties.

In a RTC you typically have insured and uninsured losses... insured losses are normally the damage to the car, possible also a token amount of personal items in the car. The uninsured losses are those that your insurer doesnt cover so things like injury, loss of earnings, hire car, your excess etc. As you only have TPO cover under DOC everything is an uninsured loss.

Unless you were injured a solicitor wont touch this... they can only charge the TP fees if the claim exceeds £10,000 for property damage and it doesnt sound as if you are close to that figure.

An accident management company will because they give you a crazy priced hire car on credit and thats how they make their money.

The other two options are to either approach the TP or their insurers (TPI) - many TPIs are keen to deal with counterparties directly because it enables them to control costs and avoids the forementioned credit hire bills. 

Its a little harsh of the insurer not to have done a MID check for you to give you the details of the TPI but if you go to the MIB's website you can do a one off check for £10 if the TP wont give you the details. You need to select the check for a third party vehicle, they offer a free service for checking your own vehicle but it gives a yes/no answer for today whereas the other service gives you the insurer name, policy number etc for the date of the accident.

https://www.mib.org.uk/check-insurance-details/check-a-vehicle-not-at-the-roadside-after-an-accident/

easy

" I can claim against the other driver (third party)"
You have mis-understood what third party insurance means.   It means if you drive a vehicle,  and you are in an accident in which you are at fault,  the driver of the other  vehicle or property damaged can claim against your insurance. -they are the third party.  However,  any damage to the vehicle you are driving is not insured,  and repair costs would be your own responsibility. 

Are you certain that your comp insurance definitely gives you third party insurance to drive other vehicles?  If not,  that could complicate matters,  as you were driving illegally. 

If this accident is as you describe, then the other driver is 100% at fault,  and the claim will be against them.  
If your insurer won't help,  it might be worth your Mum contacting her insurance company to see if they will assist.  If you had been at fault I'm sure they wouldn't,  but in these circumstances they might just at least do the check for your Mum.

HighContrast

Many thanks @DullGreyGuy and @easy for your replies, much appreciated.

Here is my policy (Direct Line), does this clarify my position (top right corner)?




Using your info does this sound like the correct approach?:
1. Do a one off MIB check  (Will need to pay for it myself unforunately).
2. Contact other drivers insurers company and explain situation?
3. Actually, not sure what next step is...

Please note I've yet to conact the other driver directly yet, I do have her mobile number and address. Perhaps I should contact her in the first instance?

silvercar

HighContrast said:

Please note I've yet to conact the other driver directly yet, I do have her mobile number and address. Perhaps I should contact her in the first instance?

That is what I would do. The other driver may want to settle with you directly, which could be easiest all around eg you estimate the damage caused and they pay you directly.

DullGreyGuy

HighContrast said:

Using your info does this sound like the correct approach?:
1. Do a one off MIB check  (Will need to pay for it myself unforunately).
2. Contact other drivers insurers company and explain situation?
3. Actually, not sure what next step is...

Please note I've yet to conact the other driver directly yet, I do have her mobile number and address. Perhaps I should contact her in the first instance?

You only need to do a MID check if the other driver hasn't given you her insurance details or if you contact her she refuses. If you don't have them/can't get them then pay for the MID check and add it to your losses to be claimed back.

Then contact her insurers and advise your vehicle was covered Third Party Only and hence you are offering them the opportunity to deal with you directly otherwise you will approach an accident management company.

From there it depends mainly on if she has already reported the accident and admitted liability or not... if she has then they should jump at the chance and offer to refer you to their network repairer and arrange a hire car

MalMonroe

Hi, you should check your own policy carefully to see exactly what it says. Compare the Market says this -

"Once upon a time driving other cars, known officially as DOC, was a standard feature of comprehensive car insurance policies. 

It used to give the policy holder third party only cover to drive someone else’s car. Naturally, they would’ve needed the car owner’s permission too. 

But times have changed, and DOC is not usually included in most policies – even if you have comprehensive cover.  

In fact, it’s quite likely that your comprehensive policy doesn’t offer any cover at all if you get behind the wheel of another person’s car."

https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/content/can-i-use-family-member-car/

The AA says :  https://www.theaa.com/car-insurance/advice/driving-other-cars-insurance

I used to think the same as you and in the past I have driven my friend's car and also my brother's car. With their permission and using my comprehensive insurance cover.

However, since I started watching a few of those motoring programmes (Traffic Cops, Police Interceptors, etc.) I have learned that it is an offence to drive another person's car if you don't have the appropriate insurance cover to drive that actual car. Or any car other than your own. Many people protest that they have comprehensive insurance and permission of the owner - and the owner has often been sitting next to them too - but it's not washed with the police. The say ignorance of the law is no excuse. Which seems a bit harsh, really.

In this instance, I'd be inclined to agree with what silvercar says above. 

Edited to add : I've just read what you said about the car not being worth much. In which case, I'd be very tempted to just drop the whole thing. You could end up in more hot water than you ever envisaged.

HighContrast

Many thanks to all who replied with information.

Just to provide an update, because of sods law the MOT and road tax of my mums car was due end of this month (you couldn't make it up ) and the boot not closing would have obviously been an MOT failure.

I initially approched the other party to suggest dealing with this privately and told them a price my family mechanic suggested to repair the boot, but she said just go through the insurance.

However with the MOT & road tax deadline pending I just got it repaired myself.

I closed the claim with the insurer, although weirdly they said it was already closed?

Anyway, where I'm confused now is when looking to renew my insurance is whether I should decalre if I've made a claim in the last x amount of time? My insurer said I didn't have to, as there would be a record of the cancelled claim anyway?

Looking at my most recent renewal doc my insurance definitley seems more expensive 

HighContrast

Edit - to add to my last post, I rang my insurer again to ask what i need to do if I shop around for my renewal reguarding what to say about declaring any claims.

Apparently I need to declare any claims (obviously) and/or any loss i.e. got an accident repaired myself, which is a new concept on me. 

But I assume what I have now is a "loss" on my record (and not a claim), although how they know if it was repaired for free etc is mystery?

Any tips taking this account RE shopping for a renewal?

And yes my current renewal has been bumped up becuase of this 

MalMonroe

Hi again, 

Yes, you will need to report it on any car insurance application. Someone once rolled very gently into the back of my car (she was on her phone while we were waiting at traffic lights) - good job there were no cops around. Similar to what happened to you but not even a bump really - just a very gentle soft knock. I wondered if some kind of damage may have occurred, although it didn't seem it had but you never know with that kind of thing. You may think it's a simple bump but one of us may have had damage to some part of our vehicle. We exchanged phone numbers - that's all. When I got home I phoned my insurers and for a few years afterwards I wished I hadn't. Because there was no damage, the woman whose car rolled into mine never contacted me and we could have just left the whole thing. I bet she didn't phone her insurers. And I only phoned mine to ask if I should report the incident. They said they weren't in a position to advise but promptly put information about the non-happening onto the MID (Motor Insurance Database as mentioned in your OP) - link here -

https://www.mib.org.uk/managing-insurance-data/the-motor-insurance-database-mid/

to say that I had reported a no fault accident - and they wouldn't remove it, even though I protested and said there was no accident, there was no claim, there was no fault. There was only my enquiry. I won't be doing that again for any minor happening.

Every year after that, for 5 years when I was researching car insurance, I had to declare an 'accident' and qualify it by putting 'no fault'. It was really annoying because it was such a minor thing.

Had I not put that on the quotation requests, then the prospective insurers would have rejected my application since they'd have said I was trying to hide the fact that I'd had an accident. grrrr.

I was assured that it wouldn't affect any future insurance premiums because it was no fault - and that appeared to be the case but it went through me having to put it on the forms.

The problem is that the insurance company have put details of your bump onto MID. They have to. If you apply for insurance now without disclosing what happened, your application will be challenged and declined.

I'd just do some online comparisons, Compare the Market or Go compare, see what they can do for you. It might not be as bad as you are thinking, especially as the other party caused the bump. If you are talking about a renewal from your current insurance company then they're usually higher anyway. 

Just be honest when applying for new insurance. You'll have to be, because of MID. Big brother's watching us all. Again. There's not a lot you can do really. 

DullGreyGuy

HighContrast said:

Apparently I need to declare any claims (obviously) and/or any loss i.e. got an accident repaired myself, which is a new concept on me. 

But I assume what I have now is a "loss" on my record (and not a claim), although how they know if it was repaired for free etc is mystery?

This has always been the case, at least in the 28 years I've been buying car insurance... just most people "forget" to mention losses when not dealt with by insurance.

Any other insurer looking will see you have had a withdrawn claim, they wont know why it was withdrawn but the fact you registered a claim in the first place will be a big indication that you had some form of loss. I'm not sure what you mean about "repaired for free" - they'd just see a nil settlement on the claim. They'd not know if you decided to just live with the damage, paid it yourself, someone else paid it etc. Obviously when you tick yes to any incidents in the last 5 years you will then be asked to provide more details and so thats how they get to know