new boiler advice

propertyrental

Moving to a new house as a single person, with occassional guests.

3 bed house with two bathrooms, one with a shower, one with a bath and separate shower.
Current boiler is 23 years old, conventional with a hot water cylinder - so not combi and not condensing.
Both showers operate off the hot water cylinder (so not electric) though with a power boost.
Boiler is located in airing cupboard in a central location (no outside wall) so I suspect a condensing boiler would need pipework and pump to the attic to then access outside.

So my questions are, assumig the boiler will soon need replacing:

* combi or conventional?
* relative cost (install & running) and benefit of each?
* if combi, how will that affect the showers?
* boiler make?
* best to approach manufacturer for installation, or local indi engineers?

plumb1_2

Heat only boiler, Baxi, pressurised cylinder.

CliveOfIndia

OK, so speaking from personal experience rather than as a professional !   : 

If you're a single person, then a combi makes eminent sense.  Having used both types over the years in different circumstances, a combi is absolutely fine for a single person.  The main gripes people have about them is that it's mightily annoying if one person is in the shower and someone else turns on the hot tap in the kitchen.  You might need to "chaperone" your occasional guests to not do this, but in the main I think it's a sensible option.

propertyrental said:

Boiler is located in airing cupboard in a central location (no outside wall) so I suspect a condensing boiler would need pipework and pump to the attic to then access outside.

It must have a flue ... or is it electric?  But if you need to relocate it, then that shouldn't cost too much in the grand scheme of things.

Again, speaking from personal experience, a combi boiler gives a great shower - assuming the mains water pressure is sufficient (this is an important consideration, you may need to get a heating engineer to advise you).

Definitely get a local indi to install it, based on recommendations from friends/neighbours/local Facebook page etc.  A "manufacturer" won't usually install anyway, at best they'll sub-contract the installation to someone.  Just check that whoever does install it is GSR registered (assuming it's a gas boiler).  Dead easy to look up on the GSR website.

From what you've described, I think a combi would suit your situation - it's different if you're a family of four or five, in which case I'd be recommending a "conventional" hot water tank setup.

Just my thoughts, hope it's of some help.

propertyrental

plumb1_2 said:

Heat only boiler, Baxi, pressurised cylinder.

Thanks but no idea what that means. What else do boilers do apart from heat....

Belenus

This Worcester Bosch link may help to answer that question.


Baxi are a manufacturer of boilers as are Worcester Bosch, Vallaint and many others. 

System boilers require a cylinder for storing hot water, however the major heating and hot water system components are built into the boiler itself, making it quicker and easier to install. In addition, there is no need for a tank in the loft, so it can be an option in a home with little or no loft space or where the space is earmarked for a conversion.

A combination or 'combi' boiler is both a high efficiency water heater and a central heating boiler in a single compact unit. Combi boilers heat water directly from the mains when you turn on a tap, so you won’t need a hot water storage cylinder or a cold water storage tank in the roof space.

Regular boilers (sometimes known as traditional, conventional or heat only boilers) are ideally suited to homes that already have a traditional heating and hot water system which is linked to a separate hot water cylinder. These boilers also need a cold water storage tank in the loft to feed the hot water cylinder as well as a tank that maintains the water level of the central heating system.

BUFF

If fitting a combi in place of a conventional boiler+tank you may well require a larger gas pipe to be fitted. Also, most likely unless the installer changes the dhw pipework significantly you will have an appreciable delay between turning the hot tap/shower on & getting hot water at the outlet. Repiping to avoid that will add to install cost

Best solution (but not necessarily cheapest to buy, install & run for a single person)  imo is as plumb1_2 suggests a system boiler & unvented cylinder.

But get a couple of well regarded local installers to do a site visit & quote.

ThisIsWeird

propertyrental said:

Moving to a new house as a single person, with occassional guests.

3 bed house with two bathrooms, one with a shower, one with a bath and separate shower.
Current boiler is 23 years old, conventional with a hot water cylinder - so not combi and not condensing.
Both showers operate off the hot water cylinder (so not electric) though with a power boost.
Boiler is located in airing cupboard in a central location (no outside wall) so I suspect a condensing boiler would need pipework and pump to the attic to then access outside.

So my questions are, assumig the boiler will soon need replacing:

* combi or conventional?
* relative cost (install & running) and benefit of each?
* if combi, how will that affect the showers?
* boiler make?
* best to approach manufacturer for installation, or local indi engineers?

Good answers above re choice between combi and conventional. There is no one correct answer, but pros and cons.

Yes, the new boiler - regardless of type - will require a condensate pipe. And, yes, one way is to pump it up and away from such central locations - not ideal, but sometimes necessary. Is there a bathroom adjacent to the boiler cupboard? If so, quite possibly it could instead be fed into a waste pipe there - a much better solution.

A combi - or a 'megaflo' (unvented cylinder) - are both cold water mains powered, so that has to be 'good' to begin with. Is it?

A stored hot water system is also more future-proof and can be sued with PV and similar. Possibly a consideration?

The cheapest way forward is to simply replace the boiler, and keep everything else - after all, it works, doesn't it? It's a shame you need to pump the showers, and an unvented cylinder might replace the need, but you need to have a look at what you are after. 

A combi might be slightly cheaper to run overall for one person as it only heats the water it actually uses. But, they are more complex, more likely to go wrong, will cost more in the first place, and will only supply one shower at a time. And are you sure you won't miss your warm airing cupboard?

So, what do you wish to achieve? What are the important factors for you?

ch3shirecat4

i would maybe get in touch with an actual plumber about this but i think after that many years it is definitely going to need replacing 

jackieblack

Speaking from personal experience, when my boiler broke down in sub zero weather temperatures a few years ago, and I was without heating for 3 weeks, being able to have a hot shower, from water heated by immersion in the cylinder, was the one thing that kept me going...
For this reason I would always choose to keep the hot water cylinder and would never choose a combi boiler.

propertyrental

Thanks everyone. An interesting and useful range of options, that will help me in discussions with the contractors I get round.

Just to clarify- no, there's no adjacent bathroom though there is a loo below - not directly but offset to one side. Will discuss piping condensate down instead of up!

ThisIsWeird

propertyrental said:

Thanks everyone. An interesting and useful range of options, that will help me in discussions with the contractors I get round.

Just to clarify- no, there's no adjacent bathroom though there is a loo below - not directly but offset to one side. Will discuss piping condensate down instead of up!

It's good to build up as much info as possible. Sometimes GasSafes will have their own personal takes, but they might not be what's best for the individual.

This loo below, where does the soil/vent pipe run?