Cheeky offer

RelievedSheff

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

mi-key said:

I pay less for old boilers, because I am smart enough to think a few years ahead to that big bill coming down the road. These days I also have an eye on how easy it will be to retrofit a heat pump, because sales of gas ones are ending in 2025, less than 2 years away.

You would be mad not to factor in those costs when making an offer.

2025 is for new builds, it is 2035 ( estimated ) for installing in older homes. Given a boiler can easily last 20 years then that would take you to 2055. Although given what has happened with electricity prices, who knows if it will all still go ahead...

I hope it goes ahead. We need to stop using gas. Your post just highlights the issue though. Boilers can last 20 years, 15 is probably more typical... But if you buy one that is 15 years old already, you should expect to be replacing it fairly soon, and have cash saved for that.

It's sad how many people apparently don't even think about big costs like are likely to face in the short to medium term.

With rising summer temperatures, air to air heat pumps are going to become necessary in some parts of the country. Especially with leasehold properties that's a big issue. British houses and flats are not usually designed to stay cool.

It's about when you make your offer. I never pay asking price for any house as I think they're all overpriced when they come to market. What I mean is that when I make my offer I know whether the boiler etc is old. I always have a structural survey (L3) and usually a SE as I like old houses. I don't, after the survey, offer less based on whether the boiler is old, as I already know it is (or isn't) and tbh if you look after then well they can last far longer than other 'new' items.

I've had much more trouble generally with newer items left in houses that don't stadnd the test if time. New houses full stop have all kinds of issues. 

The older houses we have lived in have had far more problems with them than the current 4 year old house that we bought when it was a new build.

This house feels far more solidly built than the previous 1930's semi which had atrocious build quality.

Noneforit999

RelievedSheff said:

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

mi-key said:

I pay less for old boilers, because I am smart enough to think a few years ahead to that big bill coming down the road. These days I also have an eye on how easy it will be to retrofit a heat pump, because sales of gas ones are ending in 2025, less than 2 years away.

You would be mad not to factor in those costs when making an offer.

2025 is for new builds, it is 2035 ( estimated ) for installing in older homes. Given a boiler can easily last 20 years then that would take you to 2055. Although given what has happened with electricity prices, who knows if it will all still go ahead...

I hope it goes ahead. We need to stop using gas. Your post just highlights the issue though. Boilers can last 20 years, 15 is probably more typical... But if you buy one that is 15 years old already, you should expect to be replacing it fairly soon, and have cash saved for that.

It's sad how many people apparently don't even think about big costs like are likely to face in the short to medium term.

With rising summer temperatures, air to air heat pumps are going to become necessary in some parts of the country. Especially with leasehold properties that's a big issue. British houses and flats are not usually designed to stay cool.

It's about when you make your offer. I never pay asking price for any house as I think they're all overpriced when they come to market. What I mean is that when I make my offer I know whether the boiler etc is old. I always have a structural survey (L3) and usually a SE as I like old houses. I don't, after the survey, offer less based on whether the boiler is old, as I already know it is (or isn't) and tbh if you look after then well they can last far longer than other 'new' items.

I've had much more trouble generally with newer items left in houses that don't stadnd the test if time. New houses full stop have all kinds of issues. 

The older houses we have lived in have had far more problems with them than the current 4 year old house that we bought when it was a new build.

This house feels far more solidly built than the previous 1930's semi which had atrocious build quality.

Same experience for us, we have gone from a 2015 built house to one built in 1965.

Just has an EICR done in advance of the kitchen being replaced next week to be told the existing electrics are in such a mess we need a rewire so another £6-7k. 

Part of me regrets buying something like this, we haven't had an structural work done and I reckon we will have spend £40k just to get it up to a modern standard, not to mention the drama of trying to live here while walls are replastered etc. 

Sarah1Mitty2

[Deleted User] said:

TheJP said:

[Deleted User] said:

TheJP said:

zoemk12 said:

Morning

i can’t really comment on structural or major work until after tomorrow at least. We don’t know if it needs a new boiler, rewire etc. 

It needs new windows, has an avocado bathroom, the kitchen is half out and then rest needs to follow. It has the standard falling down lean to conservatory that needs to go. The garden is a mess and we wonder if the garage has asbestos. However, the rest is cosmetic, as you say strip the walls and reskim. We’d also make some internal layout changes- which I know is a choice thing. It also has an old 2 bar heater in the lounge so we’d need that come out. We’d render outside maybe. 

Can’t comment on internal doors, skirtings etc. 

At this stage we would not extend, although we’d replace the lean to with some sort of glass structure. We might eventually add a dormer to create a new master in the loft but not factoring in that with current view of price or costs of renovation. 

And no we don’t want Grey flooring and live, laugh, love signs but I tend not to look down my nose at petiole who do- it’s all personal choice! 

I think here is you need to be realistic as to what you take into consideration on what constitutes a reduction in price. The rotting windows and half missing kitchen yes but an avocado bathroom and a messy garden no.  Again the boiler may be old but if it works doesn't really mean you can reduce your offer because you want a new one. I've had people make 'cheeky' offers because the kitchen, bathroom etc wasn't to their liking, they were both functioning  and i didn't consider their offer and was weary of them as a serious buyer as i knew there may be more reductions if a survey was carried out.

I feel a lot of what you are looking a reduction for is cosmetic and wouldn't warrant a reduction and it sounds like you have a vision of a turn key house but want the seller to foot the majority of the bill for what you want.

Make sure you are clear on what things you are prepared to live with and update at your cost and what is non-negotiable if you do buy the house.

An old boiler absolutely is a reason to offer less. You wouldn't pay new price for a used car, because its useful life is going to be less. If the boiler is only a few years away from needing replacement, and less efficient than a modern one, then that definitely has to factor into the price.

Depending on the situation it could be a few thousand to get it sorted, plus all the disruption.

A boiler is one component of the house, its like saying the lightbulbs on the car that work fine are old so i want £50 off the price.

Houses and cars have differencing depreciating values, cars go down in value (unless its a classic) and house most certainly rise in value no matter the age.

That's literally how car prices work. The older it is the less you pay, because you know the amount of maintenance work it will need is going to higher.

Houses are different, but for example the EPC is there to help you understand how much it will cost to run, and how much it is likely to cost to modernize it. A house with a low EPC and a similar one that has had a heat pump retrofitted, good insulation, double glazing, better EPC rating, are clearly going to be valued differently by most people.

Houses and cars are the same in that borrowing costs affect the value of both, except with a house you are borrowing a lot more.

[Deleted User]

RelievedSheff said:

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

mi-key said:

I pay less for old boilers, because I am smart enough to think a few years ahead to that big bill coming down the road. These days I also have an eye on how easy it will be to retrofit a heat pump, because sales of gas ones are ending in 2025, less than 2 years away.

You would be mad not to factor in those costs when making an offer.

2025 is for new builds, it is 2035 ( estimated ) for installing in older homes. Given a boiler can easily last 20 years then that would take you to 2055. Although given what has happened with electricity prices, who knows if it will all still go ahead...

I hope it goes ahead. We need to stop using gas. Your post just highlights the issue though. Boilers can last 20 years, 15 is probably more typical... But if you buy one that is 15 years old already, you should expect to be replacing it fairly soon, and have cash saved for that.

It's sad how many people apparently don't even think about big costs like are likely to face in the short to medium term.

With rising summer temperatures, air to air heat pumps are going to become necessary in some parts of the country. Especially with leasehold properties that's a big issue. British houses and flats are not usually designed to stay cool.

It's about when you make your offer. I never pay asking price for any house as I think they're all overpriced when they come to market. What I mean is that when I make my offer I know whether the boiler etc is old. I always have a structural survey (L3) and usually a SE as I like old houses. I don't, after the survey, offer less based on whether the boiler is old, as I already know it is (or isn't) and tbh if you look after then well they can last far longer than other 'new' items.

I've had much more trouble generally with newer items left in houses that don't stadnd the test if time. New houses full stop have all kinds of issues. 

The older houses we have lived in have had far more problems with them than the current 4 year old house that we bought when it was a new build.

This house feels far more solidly built than the previous 1930's semi which had atrocious build quality.

They vary greatly. Some new builds are awful, some old houses are solid.

The big problem in the UK is that most houses are attached in some way, often terrace. If they were detached then a lot more could be done to improve them, including replacing them entirely.

[Deleted User]

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

mi-key said:

I pay less for old boilers, because I am smart enough to think a few years ahead to that big bill coming down the road. These days I also have an eye on how easy it will be to retrofit a heat pump, because sales of gas ones are ending in 2025, less than 2 years away.

You would be mad not to factor in those costs when making an offer.

2025 is for new builds, it is 2035 ( estimated ) for installing in older homes. Given a boiler can easily last 20 years then that would take you to 2055. Although given what has happened with electricity prices, who knows if it will all still go ahead...

I hope it goes ahead. We need to stop using gas. Your post just highlights the issue though. Boilers can last 20 years, 15 is probably more typical... But if you buy one that is 15 years old already, you should expect to be replacing it fairly soon, and have cash saved for that.

It's sad how many people apparently don't even think about big costs like are likely to face in the short to medium term.

With rising summer temperatures, air to air heat pumps are going to become necessary in some parts of the country. Especially with leasehold properties that's a big issue. British houses and flats are not usually designed to stay cool.

It's about when you make your offer. I never pay asking price for any house as I think they're all overpriced when they come to market. What I mean is that when I make my offer I know whether the boiler etc is old. I always have a structural survey (L3) and usually a SE as I like old houses. I don't, after the survey, offer less based on whether the boiler is old, as I already know it is (or isn't) and tbh if you look after then well they can last far longer than other 'new' items.

I've had much more trouble generally with newer items left in houses that don't stadnd the test if time. New houses full stop have all kinds of issues. 

In other words you do factor the cost of the boiler in, just at a different point. If the survey says the boiler is on its last legs, you already factored that into the price so don't lower your offer even further.

I tend to do the same. When viewing I make sure I look at the boiler to see if it looks old, and there is usually some indication on it of when it was last serviced.

mi-key

Same experience for us, we have gone from a 2015 built house to one built in 1965.

Just has an EICR done in advance of the kitchen being replaced next week to be told the existing electrics are in such a mess we need a rewire so another £6-7k. 

Part of me regrets buying something like this, we haven't had an structural work done and I reckon we will have spend £40k just to get it up to a modern standard, not to mention the drama of trying to live here while walls are replastered etc. 

If you are replacing the kitchen there is no need to rewire the whole house. Rewiring for the kitchen would cost nowhere near that much

markin

RelievedSheff said:

[Deleted User] said:

caprikid1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

mi-key said:

Does that not rather depend how much they want that particular property?

A significant part of that though is not the specific property per se but the fear and pressure that comes from not being "on the property ladder", the perception that rent is wasted money and that they are missing out on the great property inflation sunshine cruise.

Renting ( in general ) is wasted money though. At least when you own your own property the money you pay each month is going some way to building up some equity, and historically prices do always go up over the long term.

I imagine most people think of their house as a home, rather than an investment to make them money

More importantly is you have security when you have your own house. You aren't at the mercy of a landlord who decides to sell, or increases the rent all the time

So many people (usually home owners) see renting as wasted money. I felt pressured into buying in my early twenties and it was by far the most ridiculous decision I ever made. It totally ruined me financially (negative equity), it started a spiral of debt, and it stopped me moving around and building my career the way I wanted to. I didn't learn then either, as I bought an old house which ate every penny I had and I sold it at a loss because of divorce.

if you're not going to move much, if you live your life in a linear way, and if life doesn't throw you curve balls then I agree. But to talk about renting being wasted money depends entirely on your situation.

I've bought now with a very small mortgage which I will pay off quickly, because landlords treated me so much better than the bank, who were definitely the wolf at my door. I don't see myself as secure house-wise until I have the deeds. So landlord or bank, I still don't 'own'.

 I did exactly the same as you bought a house young moved around , built my career, London various places, rented the house out , had lodgers to keep it as a base, then rented it out fully.

Kept it through all changes in my life. Cost me £40,000 now worth £300,000 and gives me an income of £12000 a year and a gain of £260,000 best decision I ever made, it was a fixer upper too.

I guess we can all find something to blame for our failures in life.

Rented lots of times when I moved, never viewed it as wasted money, merely a cost effective short term solution for accommodation but not a long term desire.

Great for you, but all the FTBs today are being shafted by that massive increase in value.

It's very frustrating to hear people boasting about how much wealth they gained through owning property, while the same opportunity is necessarily denied to others for them to have it. It would be much better if houses depreciated like they do in some other countries. It wouldn't affect you, you could still live in it, but it would prevent this massive inflation.

And yet first time buyers are still buying homes. 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/

"Though it is still very early in the year, this month’s key metrics suggest that many buyers are seeing reasons to get on with their moves, and have the confidence to return to a market which, so far, is stronger than many expected. The number of potential buyers contacting agents is up by 11% in the last two weeks compared with the same period in 2019.

This demand is beginning to translate into sales, as the number of sales agreed is now just 11% down on the same period in 2019’s more normal market, picking up from 15% down at the start of the year and vastly improved from 30% down in the aftermath of September’s mini-Budget. This is quite a remarkable turnaround given the rapid increase in mortgage rates less than six months ago. Perhaps even more surprisingly, it is sales in the first-time buyer sector which are holding up most strongly and are down only 7% on 2019. This suggests that though the first-time buyer sector has been hardest hit in terms of the number of buyers enquiring, those who are in the market and able to move are motivated to agree a purchase, likely driven in part by high and increasing rents, and a continued desire to own their own home. Conversely and an indication of hyper-local and sector differences, sales in the top-of-the-ladder sector are down by 16% in the first two weeks of February compared with the same time in 2019."

But they are now 6 years older than 2007 (27yo)-(33yo) with an average deposit now needed of 61K.

mi-key

But they are now 6 years older than 2007 (27yo)-(33yo) with an average deposit now needed of 61K.

The average deposit needed isn't £61K where did you get that from?  Average house cost is £236K for a FTB, FTBs can easily get 90% mortgages so they only need £24K deposit

markin

mi-key said:

But they are now 6 years older than 2007 (27yo)-(33yo) with an average deposit now needed of 61K.

The average deposit needed isn't £61K where did you get that from?  Average house cost is £236K for a FTB, FTBs can easily get 90% mortgages so they only need £24K deposit

Needed maybe but people are older and want to use a bigger deposit to get a better rate. North East its 27,700, London 115,700.

https://www.money.co.uk/mortgages/first-time-buyer-mortgages/statistics

Sarah1Mitty2

mi-key said:

But they are now 6 years older than 2007 (27yo)-(33yo) with an average deposit now needed of 61K.

The average deposit needed isn't £61K where did you get that from?  Average house cost is £236K for a FTB, FTBs can easily get 90% mortgages so they only need £24K deposit

That doesn`t chime with the drop in mortgage approvals, something not right with your figures there it seems, or maybe FTB`ers are holding off until interest rate rises do their job of bringing down prices?