Cheeky offer

[Deleted User]

Gavin83 said:

[Deleted User] said:

caprikid1 said:

lookstraightahead said:

mi-key said:

Does that not rather depend how much they want that particular property?

A significant part of that though is not the specific property per se but the fear and pressure that comes from not being "on the property ladder", the perception that rent is wasted money and that they are missing out on the great property inflation sunshine cruise.

Renting ( in general ) is wasted money though. At least when you own your own property the money you pay each month is going some way to building up some equity, and historically prices do always go up over the long term.

I imagine most people think of their house as a home, rather than an investment to make them money

More importantly is you have security when you have your own house. You aren't at the mercy of a landlord who decides to sell, or increases the rent all the time

So many people (usually home owners) see renting as wasted money. I felt pressured into buying in my early twenties and it was by far the most ridiculous decision I ever made. It totally ruined me financially (negative equity), it started a spiral of debt, and it stopped me moving around and building my career the way I wanted to. I didn't learn then either, as I bought an old house which ate every penny I had and I sold it at a loss because of divorce.

if you're not going to move much, if you live your life in a linear way, and if life doesn't throw you curve balls then I agree. But to talk about renting being wasted money depends entirely on your situation.

I've bought now with a very small mortgage which I will pay off quickly, because landlords treated me so much better than the bank, who were definitely the wolf at my door. I don't see myself as secure house-wise until I have the deeds. So landlord or bank, I still don't 'own'.

 I did exactly the same as you bought a house young moved around , built my career, London various places, rented the house out , had lodgers to keep it as a base, then rented it out fully.

Kept it through all changes in my life. Cost me £40,000 now worth £300,000 and gives me an income of £12000 a year and a gain of £260,000 best decision I ever made, it was a fixer upper too.

I guess we can all find something to blame for our failures in life.

Rented lots of times when I moved, never viewed it as wasted money, merely a cost effective short term solution for accommodation but not a long term desire.

Great for you, but all the FTBs today are being shafted by that massive increase in value.

It's very frustrating to hear people boasting about how much wealth they gained through owning property, while the same opportunity is necessarily denied to others for them to have it. It would be much better if houses depreciated like they do in some other countries. It wouldn't affect you, you could still live in it, but it would prevent this massive inflation.

There isn't an easy answer to this and whatever is done someone will get shafted. FTBs are shafted by increasing property prices (although wages increase too) but if you were to put controls in place to lower house prices then people who bought recently at the higher prices would also be shafted, arguably more so than FTBs would.

I'm happy to admit this is a rather selfish viewpoint but I'd rather protect myself than FTBs I don't know. Knowing it was easier for FTBs to get on the property ladder would be little consolation if I found myself homeless.

Thanks for your honesty.

If prices came down a lot then people wouldn't be made homeless. They might be in negative equity, but as long as they keep paying the mortgage...

A good option would be for local government to build a lot of good quality, good size houses. Sell them to FTBs, with a control in place to limit how much they can be sold for.

A ban on BTL in areas with lots of them already would also help. Bigger inheritance tax on property, with the proceeds put into a fund to build more houses for FTBs.

[Deleted User]

YoungBlueEyes said:

It depends what hasn't been touched for 30 years. Mosaic tiled floor and original cornicing? Fine. Electrics/wiring etc? They'll want looking at, certainly, from a safety point of view. Avocado bathroom? You can see that on RM pics/your viewing so as a seller I wouldn't be reducing for it.

These days the EPC is a big factor, and old house are often very expensive to make well insulated.

BikingBud

YoungBlueEyes said:

Ah well that's a different slant.

Being aware of sold prices in the area is a good thing, but ceilings are smashed all the time....

Wow yeah, didn't we do well, we got this house and managed to pay 40k more than the previous ceiling. Brill  

YoungBlueEyes

Aye I think the ceiling thing is given too much importance.

We're in a cul-de-sac. Apart from the big detached jobber at the top with the massive garden, we've paid more for this house than anyone else has for theirs. (They've all been here years.) My seller near tripled her money!

Other than blips up and down, house prices only go one way - given enough time. 

lookstraightahead

[Deleted User] said:

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

TheJP said:

zoemk12 said:

Morning

i can’t really comment on structural or major work until after tomorrow at least. We don’t know if it needs a new boiler, rewire etc. 

It needs new windows, has an avocado bathroom, the kitchen is half out and then rest needs to follow. It has the standard falling down lean to conservatory that needs to go. The garden is a mess and we wonder if the garage has asbestos. However, the rest is cosmetic, as you say strip the walls and reskim. We’d also make some internal layout changes- which I know is a choice thing. It also has an old 2 bar heater in the lounge so we’d need that come out. We’d render outside maybe. 

Can’t comment on internal doors, skirtings etc. 

At this stage we would not extend, although we’d replace the lean to with some sort of glass structure. We might eventually add a dormer to create a new master in the loft but not factoring in that with current view of price or costs of renovation. 

And no we don’t want Grey flooring and live, laugh, love signs but I tend not to look down my nose at petiole who do- it’s all personal choice! 

I think here is you need to be realistic as to what you take into consideration on what constitutes a reduction in price. The rotting windows and half missing kitchen yes but an avocado bathroom and a messy garden no.  Again the boiler may be old but if it works doesn't really mean you can reduce your offer because you want a new one. I've had people make 'cheeky' offers because the kitchen, bathroom etc wasn't to their liking, they were both functioning  and i didn't consider their offer and was weary of them as a serious buyer as i knew there may be more reductions if a survey was carried out.

I feel a lot of what you are looking a reduction for is cosmetic and wouldn't warrant a reduction and it sounds like you have a vision of a turn key house but want the seller to foot the majority of the bill for what you want.

Make sure you are clear on what things you are prepared to live with and update at your cost and what is non-negotiable if you do buy the house.

An old boiler absolutely is a reason to offer less. You wouldn't pay new price for a used car, because its useful life is going to be less. If the boiler is only a few years away from needing replacement, and less efficient than a modern one, then that definitely has to factor into the price.

Depending on the situation it could be a few thousand to get it sorted, plus all the disruption.

I've got an old house with old everything. You don't pay less for an old house, you usually pay more. To be honest it's usually factored in. I can't reduce my offer based on old floor tiles. It's the original overall price I always negotiate on, based on it probably being overpriced in the first place.

This is just nonsense. An old house is worth more because it's bigger or something like that, not because it needs more money spending on it.

Nobody pays extra to get an old boiler. Nobody gets a boiler grade 2 listed. It's a cost, nothing more.

Absolutely not true. People pay loads for 'potential'. A boiler's age is well down the list. And a boiler can last ages with the right care. Mine is 18 years old now. 

I've seen it happen in a street of identical houses. The insides don't matter much at all. It's the potential that counts.

Noneforit999

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

TheJP said:

zoemk12 said:

Morning

i can’t really comment on structural or major work until after tomorrow at least. We don’t know if it needs a new boiler, rewire etc. 

It needs new windows, has an avocado bathroom, the kitchen is half out and then rest needs to follow. It has the standard falling down lean to conservatory that needs to go. The garden is a mess and we wonder if the garage has asbestos. However, the rest is cosmetic, as you say strip the walls and reskim. We’d also make some internal layout changes- which I know is a choice thing. It also has an old 2 bar heater in the lounge so we’d need that come out. We’d render outside maybe. 

Can’t comment on internal doors, skirtings etc. 

At this stage we would not extend, although we’d replace the lean to with some sort of glass structure. We might eventually add a dormer to create a new master in the loft but not factoring in that with current view of price or costs of renovation. 

And no we don’t want Grey flooring and live, laugh, love signs but I tend not to look down my nose at petiole who do- it’s all personal choice! 

I think here is you need to be realistic as to what you take into consideration on what constitutes a reduction in price. The rotting windows and half missing kitchen yes but an avocado bathroom and a messy garden no.  Again the boiler may be old but if it works doesn't really mean you can reduce your offer because you want a new one. I've had people make 'cheeky' offers because the kitchen, bathroom etc wasn't to their liking, they were both functioning  and i didn't consider their offer and was weary of them as a serious buyer as i knew there may be more reductions if a survey was carried out.

I feel a lot of what you are looking a reduction for is cosmetic and wouldn't warrant a reduction and it sounds like you have a vision of a turn key house but want the seller to foot the majority of the bill for what you want.

Make sure you are clear on what things you are prepared to live with and update at your cost and what is non-negotiable if you do buy the house.

An old boiler absolutely is a reason to offer less. You wouldn't pay new price for a used car, because its useful life is going to be less. If the boiler is only a few years away from needing replacement, and less efficient than a modern one, then that definitely has to factor into the price.

Depending on the situation it could be a few thousand to get it sorted, plus all the disruption.

I've got an old house with old everything. You don't pay less for an old house, you usually pay more. To be honest it's usually factored in. I can't reduce my offer based on old floor tiles. It's the original overall price I always negotiate on, based on it probably being overpriced in the first place.

This is just nonsense. An old house is worth more because it's bigger or something like that, not because it needs more money spending on it.

Nobody pays extra to get an old boiler. Nobody gets a boiler grade 2 listed. It's a cost, nothing more.

I've seen it happen in a street of identical houses. The insides don't matter much at all. It's the potential that counts.

Assuming you have the money of course.

Things cost a lot these days, we are realising that with our kitchen fitting prices. Looking online from posts a couple of years old, I was expecting around £5k or there abouts. Four quotes, lowest of which was £8k. Clearly my expectations were miles off.

A simple garage conversion we were looking at, bearing in mind it has a door from the house, cavity walls and a window already was coming in at £13k-£15k based on several quotes. I couldn't fathom how it was so much but totting up materials was around £5k. 

I wonder if adding value is a thing anymore unless you genuinely have got a bargain with a house price but where we are in the SE, people have been paying top end for stuff that needs £30k+ putting into it. 

mi-key

BikingBud said:

YoungBlueEyes said:

Ah well that's a different slant.

Being aware of sold prices in the area is a good thing, but ceilings are smashed all the time....

Wow yeah, didn't we do well, we got this house and managed to pay 40k more than the previous ceiling. Brill  

So how does the ceiling work in say a close of 20 houses, when the last one sold 10 years ago? Should buyers be expecting to pay the same as the last one sold for? 

Ceilings are meaningless unless there are always loads of comparable houses in an area selling all the time

RelievedSheff

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

lookstraightahead said:

[Deleted User] said:

TheJP said:

zoemk12 said:

Morning

i can’t really comment on structural or major work until after tomorrow at least. We don’t know if it needs a new boiler, rewire etc. 

It needs new windows, has an avocado bathroom, the kitchen is half out and then rest needs to follow. It has the standard falling down lean to conservatory that needs to go. The garden is a mess and we wonder if the garage has asbestos. However, the rest is cosmetic, as you say strip the walls and reskim. We’d also make some internal layout changes- which I know is a choice thing. It also has an old 2 bar heater in the lounge so we’d need that come out. We’d render outside maybe. 

Can’t comment on internal doors, skirtings etc. 

At this stage we would not extend, although we’d replace the lean to with some sort of glass structure. We might eventually add a dormer to create a new master in the loft but not factoring in that with current view of price or costs of renovation. 

And no we don’t want Grey flooring and live, laugh, love signs but I tend not to look down my nose at petiole who do- it’s all personal choice! 

I think here is you need to be realistic as to what you take into consideration on what constitutes a reduction in price. The rotting windows and half missing kitchen yes but an avocado bathroom and a messy garden no.  Again the boiler may be old but if it works doesn't really mean you can reduce your offer because you want a new one. I've had people make 'cheeky' offers because the kitchen, bathroom etc wasn't to their liking, they were both functioning  and i didn't consider their offer and was weary of them as a serious buyer as i knew there may be more reductions if a survey was carried out.

I feel a lot of what you are looking a reduction for is cosmetic and wouldn't warrant a reduction and it sounds like you have a vision of a turn key house but want the seller to foot the majority of the bill for what you want.

Make sure you are clear on what things you are prepared to live with and update at your cost and what is non-negotiable if you do buy the house.

An old boiler absolutely is a reason to offer less. You wouldn't pay new price for a used car, because its useful life is going to be less. If the boiler is only a few years away from needing replacement, and less efficient than a modern one, then that definitely has to factor into the price.

Depending on the situation it could be a few thousand to get it sorted, plus all the disruption.

I've got an old house with old everything. You don't pay less for an old house, you usually pay more. To be honest it's usually factored in. I can't reduce my offer based on old floor tiles. It's the original overall price I always negotiate on, based on it probably being overpriced in the first place.

This is just nonsense. An old house is worth more because it's bigger or something like that, not because it needs more money spending on it.

Nobody pays extra to get an old boiler. Nobody gets a boiler grade 2 listed. It's a cost, nothing more.

Absolutely not true. People pay loads for 'potential'. A boiler's age is well down the list. And a boiler can last ages with the right care. Mine is 18 years old now. 

I've seen it happen in a street of identical houses. The insides don't matter much at all. It's the potential that counts.

The boiler in our last house was 26 years old when we sold the house. None of the people viewing the house mentioned this.

The house resold a couple of years ago and the same boiler was still in the house.

I daresay it is probably still in there now. It was a simple robust boiler and didn't cost the earth to heat the house.

BikingBud

mi-key said:

BikingBud said:

YoungBlueEyes said:

Ah well that's a different slant.

Being aware of sold prices in the area is a good thing, but ceilings are smashed all the time....

Wow yeah, didn't we do well, we got this house and managed to pay 40k more than the previous ceiling. Brill  

So how does the ceiling work in say a close of 20 houses, when the last one sold 10 years ago? Should buyers be expecting to pay the same as the last one sold for? 

Ceilings are meaningless unless there are always loads of comparable houses in an area selling all the time

10 years is a totally meaningless comparison in the same way that someone buying a bog standard 3/4 bed house decides they are going to pimp it and then add 40% before flipping it within 6-8 months.

Ceilings are just another part of the whole house buying charade.

MobileSaver

lookstraightahead said:

a boiler can last ages with the right care. Mine is 18 years old now.

RelievedSheff said:

The boiler in our last house was 26 years old when we sold the house.

Heresy from both of you! Don't you know that anyone buying a house, regardless of its age, has to replace the boiler at huge cost every five years. I saw that on the HPC site so it must be true.