Allowable expenses for housing benefits - lodger income

sourpuss2021

poppy12345 said:

sourpuss2021 said:

Smithers37 said:

There is something hugely wrong with someone receiving housing allowance while simultaneously making money off subletting to others, in the height of cost of rent/ownership.

and I have to spend money to keep the properties in good condition and the subtenants happy. 

It's not your money you're spending though, it's your parents.

poppy12345 said:

sourpuss2021 said:

Smithers37 said:

There is something hugely wrong with someone receiving housing allowance while simultaneously making money off subletting to others, in the height of cost of rent/ownership.

and I have to spend money to keep the properties in good condition and the subtenants happy. 

It's not your money you're spending though, it's your parents.

Well yes you're right, or it's the money from the lodger.   Anyway it's not paid for by outside employment!  

whizzywoo

So let me get this straight - your landlord, who is not related to you, owns the 3 flats, you live in one flat with a lodger and you sub-let out the other two flats.  You do all the work involved and pay for repairs and maintenance?

What are you going to do if the landlord dies?  Presumably the beneficiaries of his will are going to want take over the flats to either let out themselves or to refurbish and sell?  What will you do then, having spent all this money from your parents but you still have no stake in the properties?

born_again

The room is cold and draughty without a carpet and also noise might disturb the flat below (my subtenants).   The cost of the ply, underlay and carpet for the 20sqm+ room could easily be £1200.  Then I’ll also need to spend money on a double bed, mattress, and chest of drawers.   The room has very thin curtains too and ideally they could do with being replace<

Why ply under the underlay?
Unless the floorboards are so uneven then there is no need for ply when using underlay.

sourpuss2021

whizzywoo said:

So let me get this straight - your landlord, who is not related to you, owns the 3 flats, you live in one flat with a lodger and you sub-let out the other two flats.  You do all the work involved and pay for repairs and maintenance?

What are you going to do if the landlord dies?  Presumably the beneficiaries of his will are going to want take over the flats to either let out themselves or to refurbish and sell?  What will you do then, having spent all this money from your parents but you still have no stake in the properties?

At my instigation he did spend quite a bit in 2020-2022, like fixing up some sash windows, replacing a boiler, replacing the electricity consumer units and the EICR tests, plus most of the cost of repairs to the middle flat.  But all this was argued for and organised by me.  

But yes the situation is as you describe.  Worse, actually, because in fact he owns 50% of the property, with his sibling owning the other half.   Of course they split the money and this setup is with sibling’s full agreement.  (I spoke to sibling for first time not long ago).  And you can take it that both sides of the family are wealthy.   

However even if, as seems likely, they never sell, at some point within the next 10-15-20 years it will come to an end when their partners or children do.

I just don’t believe that any alternative is better.  Did I mention the property is worth £1.3m!?   Would I really be better off anywhere else?   I can’t picture it now.   I just have to hope Future Me will understand.

sourpuss2021

born_again said:

Why ply under the underlay?
Unless the floorboards are so uneven then there is no need for ply when using underlay.

Thanks, I didn’t know that.  I’ve previously put down carpet in the double and single bedrooms plus lino in the bathroom, and did use ply there.   

My reasoning is that they are creaky old pine floorboards, so the ply should quieten them down.  And maybe add a few more decibels of impact noise soundproofing.

theoretica

Having a lead tenant and two lodgers in your property may mean that it would count as a HMO.  An owner and 2 lodgers wouldn't - but landlord renting to three people would...   It seems complex, and risks getting your landlord into a lot of trouble.

sourpuss2021

theoretica said:

Having a lead tenant and two lodgers in your property may mean that it would count as a HMO.  An owner and 2 lodgers wouldn't - but landlord renting to three people would...   It seems complex, and risks getting your landlord into a lot of trouble.

That’s interesting.  I’m sure it’s legal for me to have two lodgers.   I would be their resident landlord and it would not matter that I’m not the owner.

However if you’re suggesting it might not be legal for the head landlord to have a tenant who has two lodgers, that’s a distinction I can’t see that there would be, but could be persuaded otherwise if you have any sources.

I do know that the borough has recently introduced selective/ additional HMO licensing.  This means that three joint tenants in a flat forming two households (i.e., a couple and their friend) now requires a license, and so would three friends.   

You’d have thought this would reduce the rental value of flats since it’s a bit of a death-knell for the traditional flat shares.  But there are enough couples with well-paid jobs looking for home offices that I don’t think it’s made a difference.  It’s just made it harder for single people looking for rooms. 

HillStreetBlues

theoretica said:

Having a lead tenant and two lodgers in your property may mean that it would count as a HMO.  An owner and 2 lodgers wouldn't - but landlord renting to three people would...   It seems complex, and risks getting your landlord into a lot of trouble.

It's not a HMO according to Shelter.

The OP is the immediate landlord to the lodgers, as the lodgers pay the OP.
The head landlord is the one(s) that own the property.

For a HMO it's where the immediate landlord lives, not the head landlord


It it was a house that is now converted into flats the "lodgers"  could be "occupier with basic protection"


EDIT Link
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/subtenants

sourpuss2021

Actually I think theoretica is right!   Have a look at this.  Yes it is perfectly legal for me to get two lodgers.  But it would not be legal for my landlord to allow me to do so!:

https://www.lodgerlandlord.co.uk/will-taking-in-a-lodger-turn-your-property-into-an-hmo/

So that scotches the idea of the second lodger.  Which is a shame as it was one way I thought of protecting myself against future rent rises (if the landlord or co-owner or family deciding they want the full market rent for the property once I’ve finished fixing it up).  It would also have made things a lot easier for me to switch over to UC.

theoretica

I don't know a definite answer - but it did look like a potential complication that needs an answer before going ahead.  Otherwise it could be a loophole unscrupulous landlords would use to get around HMO restrictions - and loopholes like that do tend to get closed.