Help with POPLA evidence review step (APCOA for GWR Swindon Station Car Park)

russm1981

Hi

 

I recently had a parking ticket from APCOA at Swindon station car park.  I genuinely attempted to use their Autopay thing (which I use for another car for work but I would have needed to add a new reg for this family trip), but despite my attempt to register, it didn't go through properly.  I even checked on day of travel, noticed, corrected the registration before I left (by working around the tech issue) AND emailing them with full info to which they never replied (next comms was the PCN).  I’ve been massively grateful for the help and support on here.

 

I made the mistake of firing off the APCOA appeal a bit quickly as at that point I was in the mode that life was too short.  Broadly OK, except I made the mistake of implying I was the driver (as it happens, I don’t think I was – big family trip, we always share, not really sure who did).  Language used was only in two places “I used a different car <reg>”, “before I left your car park”.  Not ideal, but neither of these say I was driver as opposed to being part of the general group and I have acknowledged I was there in POPLA appeal whilst being clear not admission of driver had ever or would be made, and also that I was acting as the keepers rep, not as the driver in writing to them.  Split milk etc.

 

I then put in a more considered POPLA appeal.  About 10 pages long, copied and pasted the standard stuff on signage, legibility, formatting of the notice, permission from landowner, timing of notice (I *think* it arrived final day, but I thought worth an appeal ground anyway).  I won’t copy that all here for space reasons.

 

However, I added some specifics as follows:

• The crux of my original APCOA appeal and one of my subsequent POPLA grounds is that I use their Autopay thing where you don’t have to buy a ticket and ANPR charges automatically.  There is an error if you do this in a certain browser which doesn’t capture the change to a new number plate, so on day in question car wasn’t registered their end, even though I attempted.  I managed to repeat the error generated on my computer and linked to a Video positively confirming the technical fault.  On top of that I realised issue on day in question and messaged them with all the details before leaving car park (they never replied).  Crux then being I had done what I should have done, made reasonable efforts, and not my problem if their system crap.
• Railway Byelaws.  Copied standard language from here again.  That a) POFA not applicable, b) no keeper liability and no acknowledgement of driver, c) shouldn’t have gone to DVLA as they did, d) appellant not liable etc, e) burden of proof is with APCOA
• Disability.  Transfering father to station, serious medical diagnosis on which I offered doctor note, citing Leeds Blamires vs LGO, disability discrimination etc
• Permission from landowner.  Fact they keep referring to contract with GWR when unlikely GWR is actually the landowner.  Owned by either Network Rail leased to GWR or SofS for Transport.

 

APCOA evidence states:

• Standard stuff about signs being legible and according to BPA
• Valid payment not made, together with a screenshot from their own Autopay records
• Fact I had “admitted” being driver – see above
• Fact disabled driver not mentioned in first appeal
• Crux being I entered their land in full acceptance of terms, breached them etc

 

It explicitly does not:

• Say anything in response to timing, though perhaps they reckon date of PCN speaks for itself even though they don't say that in written summary
• Say anything ref landowner (GWR vs. Network Rail etc), just provides GWR contract
• Say anything about the AutoPay technical error, or respond to my video.  Simply relies on evidence their end of lack of registration
• Doesn’t actually respond on disabled driver point beyond saying it is a new claim
• Say anything about any of the railway byelaws above

 

Is there any advice on how I should proceed in commenting on the evidence beyond drawing POPLAs attention back to my original assertions which APCOA either fail to address or comment on at all?

 

I will use this post in my reply which is really helpful on the byelaw

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5630553/apcoa-parking-charge-notice-swindon-train-station-pcn-received-what-are-the-nex

 

Thanks

 

Russ

B789

Is the PCN addressed to you as the RK? Is it a "Parking" or "Penalty" Charge Notice?

"Fact I had “admitted” being driver ..."

 Do you have a copy of the exact wording you used in your appeals to both APCOA and POPLA? POFA doesn't apply as it is not relevant land. However, the wording you used in your initial appeals will define how strong a case they have in alleging you were the driver.

Then again, I believe that APCOA are fairly benign and I don't think they've ever taken anyone to court over a PCN, certainly not in the last few years. @Coupon-mad can confirm this I believe.

Coupon-mad

They can't sue because this was a 'penalty' not a parking charge.  Nothing happens and it times out in 6 months.

russm1981

Hi
@B789
The only language relating to me "admitting" to being the driver was two sentences APCOA specifically highlighted when they copied in my original appeal as part of their evidence as below:
“I used a different car <reg>”
“before I left your car park”

That's it.  As I say, not ideal, but still arguable that I wasn't admitting to being driver, rather just being part of the group

B789

Never mind. As @Coupon-mad points out, if this is a Penalty Charge Notice under bylaws, I believe that APCOA cannot take you to court. In any case, just string everything out to the last day for responding to anything and it will time out after 6 months. Doesn't help if you made your initial appeal and POPLA appeals too soon.

Coupon-mad

Losing at POPLA won't matter.  Forget it.

russm1981

Hi.  Having waded through the APCOA stuff now they're also saying:

The appellant confirmed in their appeal to APCOA that they were the driver of the vehicle. As driver liability has been established, we will not be relying on POFA to enforce keeper liability. The PCN was not issued under PoFA, therefore we will not be making any claims under the Act. 

The "confirmed" is nonsense per previous comments/language above.  However, if they're saying definitely not POFA does that help me?  Does that confirm byelaws or is there a third option?

Also does this not definitely mean they shouldn't have gone to DVLA for keeper details?

Finally can someone help me with the keeper vs. owner vs. driver thing and what I should be saying/doing to rely on anything there, especially if byelaws?

thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

Just state in your POPLA comments that you DID NOT confirm you were the driver in the appeal, and the driver has never been identified.

Actually I'm with them, I think you have as good as said you were driving...but try denying saying it anyway.  If you lose at POPLA forget it.  And next time come here first!  Would have been a cinch.