Octopus: Action: Your meter is approaching its use-by date

matt_drummer

EssexHebridean said:

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks, dolor.  If/when Smart Meters  become mandatory, of course I'll have to accept them.

I have learned a lot from this Forum and the information from pochase  has been really very helpful and reassuring.

For now I am happier, comfortable and pleased to stay with my 'Dumb' meter.

With the greatest respect, that is just plain ‘dumb’. As I post, I am paying 6p/kWh and, at times less this Winter, for gas, and 5p/kWh for electricity.  Over the past 4 years, I have saved £00s on my energy costs. 

If the OP is comfortable paying more for peace of mind, then so long as this is based on a reasoned approach - rather than believing the lies frequently touted by the “anti” brigade - then that’s fine for them, I’d say. We all have to balance off “what suits us” against “what might in fact be best for us” and sometimes there are compromises to be made - either a little inconvenience for (for example) making something more easily affordable, or paying a little more in order to make life more straightforward. 

I’d personally save a big chunk of money right now by switching to EDF for my energy - it’s not going to happen any time soon, though! 

What peace of mind?

Surely he would have more peace of mind knowing that he had electricity and gas meters that weren't forty years old and instead had nice new ones that he knew were recording his electricity and gas usage accurately?

Having the meters replaced won't mean he'll instantly pay less money. If he does nothing but change the meters, nothing will change, they are just meters that record his use of electricity and gas.

deano2099

Annemos said:

My impression is that, as soon as you dive into smart technology or updated technology, it very quickly becomes out of date again! 

Before anybody says that taking that line, I would still be using log tables and slide rules!......

Please see this reply to a review on Trustpilot for British Gas.  

Reply from British Gas

A day ago

Hi Laura. As your smart meter is an old generation it'll need to be enrolled onto the newest smart systems to function again. As it's such an old generation there's a chance the enrolment won't work and an exchange will be necessary. Our Smart Team are currently working through a backlog of devices that need to be updated onto the newest system, which they're hoping to clear by the end of this years first quarter. If after they've tried to update your meters onto the system it doesn't work, they will contact you to advise about an exchange. Thanks, Heidi

I am firmly with Deleted_User. Wait as long as possible for sophisticated technology. 

All meters have a lifetime after which they need replacing. Seems like yours has a very long one so you're fine to keep it for longer. You're right that certain early smart meters have ended up with a shorter lifespan.

You're sort of correct that as technology gets more and more sophisticated, the lifespan seems to get shorter. But that's not a distinction between smart and dumb technology. There's no line where it switches over. Your meter has a lifespan of 45 years. More recent mechanical meters only last 20! And yes, those are more "sophisticated" mechanical meters 

You're right in saying that newer meters don't last as long, where I think you're wrong is the idea that waiting longer will result in one with a longer lifespan, and not a shorter one!

Your concerns aren't unwarranted, and if you're happy with your meter and it's still in its lifespan then definitely hold on to it. But I find it helps to view the progression of meter technology as an ongoing thing, where they get more and more sophisticated as time goes on, and will continue to do so. Rather than seeing this big distinction between "smart" and "dumb" meters which is based on a single feature that doesn't actually impact you much, if at all (can they remotely send readings).

It's sort of like classifying cars as "airbag cars" and "non-airbag cars" - yes, you probably want a modern car with an airbag but it's not really a deal-breaker.

matt_drummer

deano2099 said:

Annemos said:

My impression is that, as soon as you dive into smart technology or updated technology, it very quickly becomes out of date again! 

Before anybody says that taking that line, I would still be using log tables and slide rules!......

Please see this reply to a review on Trustpilot for British Gas.  

Reply from British Gas

A day ago

Hi Laura. As your smart meter is an old generation it'll need to be enrolled onto the newest smart systems to function again. As it's such an old generation there's a chance the enrolment won't work and an exchange will be necessary. Our Smart Team are currently working through a backlog of devices that need to be updated onto the newest system, which they're hoping to clear by the end of this years first quarter. If after they've tried to update your meters onto the system it doesn't work, they will contact you to advise about an exchange. Thanks, Heidi

I am firmly with Deleted_User. Wait as long as possible for sophisticated technology. 

All meters have a lifetime after which they need replacing. Seems like yours has a very long one so you're fine to keep it for longer. You're right that certain early smart meters have ended up with a shorter lifespan.

You're sort of correct that as technology gets more and more sophisticated, the lifespan seems to get shorter. But that's not a distinction between smart and dumb technology. There's no line where it switches over. Your meter has a lifespan of 45 years. More recent mechanical meters only last 20! And yes, those are more "sophisticated" mechanical meters 

You're right in saying that newer meters don't last as long, where I think you're wrong is the idea that waiting longer will result in one with a longer lifespan, and not a shorter one!

Your concerns aren't unwarranted, and if you're happy with your meter and it's still in its lifespan then definitely hold on to it. But I find it helps to view the progression of meter technology as an ongoing thing, where they get more and more sophisticated as time goes on, and will continue to do so. Rather than seeing this big distinction between "smart" and "dumb" meters which is based on a single feature that doesn't actually impact you much, if at all (can they remotely send readings).

It's sort of like classifying cars as "airbag cars" and "non-airbag cars" - yes, you probably want a modern car with an airbag but it's not really a deal-breaker.

This is the misunderstanding.

These older generation smart meters have not stopped working as electricity meters, they have just stopped communicating for a while.

In essence,  it's the same as the analogue meter it replaced.

It's not a disaster caused by a smart meter, it's just a meter that needs to be read periodically just like the meter it replaced.

This is not a rational reason for not having a smart meter.

Is anybody really saying that they don't want a smart meter because it might stop sending readings to the supplier meaning that I have to take readings myself and submit the readings to the supplier myself, so I would prefer to keep my old meter that I have to take readings from myself and send to the supplier myself?

That sounds mad but that is really what you are all saying?

pochase

jackieblack said:

pochase said:

jackieblack said:

pochase said:

@crimson what is the type of the elictricity meter and what are the first 3 characters of the meter serial number? 

It should be a letter and two numbers, and for recent meters the two number show the date (year) of certification. Or maybe you just know when the meter was installed.

A list of the certification periods for the different meters can be found here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1126202/schedule-4-december-2022.pdf

Thanks for this, very helpful 
I’ve had a look at the serial number on my meter which is S64 (which is when the house was built), but there is a little yellow sticker on the glass which says ‘certified 02 84’ so I’m guessing it was inspected and recertified 20 years after installation(?)

That would be my guess also. There is the possibility to recertify to my knowledge, it just is more expensive than a new meter.

What meter do you have? There are only 3 Sangamo meters with 40 to 45 years certification, so even 1984 might be at the end of certification now.

It says S 200.16

The Sangamo S200.16 is one of the two meters with 40 years certification. So certification will run out next year.

deano2099

matt_drummer said:

deano2099 said:

Annemos said:

My impression is that, as soon as you dive into smart technology or updated technology, it very quickly becomes out of date again! 

Before anybody says that taking that line, I would still be using log tables and slide rules!......

Please see this reply to a review on Trustpilot for British Gas.  

Reply from British Gas

A day ago

Hi Laura. As your smart meter is an old generation it'll need to be enrolled onto the newest smart systems to function again. As it's such an old generation there's a chance the enrolment won't work and an exchange will be necessary. Our Smart Team are currently working through a backlog of devices that need to be updated onto the newest system, which they're hoping to clear by the end of this years first quarter. If after they've tried to update your meters onto the system it doesn't work, they will contact you to advise about an exchange. Thanks, Heidi

I am firmly with Deleted_User. Wait as long as possible for sophisticated technology. 

All meters have a lifetime after which they need replacing. Seems like yours has a very long one so you're fine to keep it for longer. You're right that certain early smart meters have ended up with a shorter lifespan.

You're sort of correct that as technology gets more and more sophisticated, the lifespan seems to get shorter. But that's not a distinction between smart and dumb technology. There's no line where it switches over. Your meter has a lifespan of 45 years. More recent mechanical meters only last 20! And yes, those are more "sophisticated" mechanical meters 

You're right in saying that newer meters don't last as long, where I think you're wrong is the idea that waiting longer will result in one with a longer lifespan, and not a shorter one!

Your concerns aren't unwarranted, and if you're happy with your meter and it's still in its lifespan then definitely hold on to it. But I find it helps to view the progression of meter technology as an ongoing thing, where they get more and more sophisticated as time goes on, and will continue to do so. Rather than seeing this big distinction between "smart" and "dumb" meters which is based on a single feature that doesn't actually impact you much, if at all (can they remotely send readings).

It's sort of like classifying cars as "airbag cars" and "non-airbag cars" - yes, you probably want a modern car with an airbag but it's not really a deal-breaker.

This is the misunderstanding.

These older generation smart meters have not stopped working as electricity meters, they have just stopped communicating for a while.

In essence,  it's the same as the analogue meter it replaced.

It's not a disaster caused by a smart meter, it's just a meter that needs to be read periodically just like the meter it replaced.

This is not a rational reason for not having a smart meter.

Is anybody really saying that they don't want a smart meter because it might stop sending readings to the supplier meaning that I have to take readings myself and submit the readings to the supplier myself, so I would prefer to keep my old meter that I have to take readings from myself and send to the supplier myself?

That sounds mad but that is really what you are all saying?

I agree with you, but in my experience calling people irrational or mad is far less likely to change their mind that actually trying to empathise with someone's concerns and engage with their concerns as they see them.
I'd rather help someone feel good about their choice than win "internet points".

matt_drummer

I don't think I have called anybody irrational or mad.

I commented that what I was saying sounded mad.

I am trying to help and I do listen to their concerns, but they never actually have any concerns, it always `I like what I have and don't want to change', well the point is there is no change, it's just swapping an old meter for a new one.

Smart meters are being presented as something they are not, they are just gas and electricity meters.

The concern always seems to be that if a meter stops communicating with the supplier then you are worse off than you were before you had them installed, whereas you have exactly what you had before, so there's no risk, nothing can happen and all you will have are new meters.

ariarnia

matt_drummer said:

EssexHebridean said:

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks, dolor.  If/when Smart Meters  become mandatory, of course I'll have to accept them.

I have learned a lot from this Forum and the information from pochase  has been really very helpful and reassuring.

For now I am happier, comfortable and pleased to stay with my 'Dumb' meter.

With the greatest respect, that is just plain ‘dumb’. As I post, I am paying 6p/kWh and, at times less this Winter, for gas, and 5p/kWh for electricity.  Over the past 4 years, I have saved £00s on my energy costs. 

If the OP is comfortable paying more for peace of mind, then so long as this is based on a reasoned approach - rather than believing the lies frequently touted by the “anti” brigade - then that’s fine for them, I’d say. We all have to balance off “what suits us” against “what might in fact be best for us” and sometimes there are compromises to be made - either a little inconvenience for (for example) making something more easily affordable, or paying a little more in order to make life more straightforward. 

I’d personally save a big chunk of money right now by switching to EDF for my energy - it’s not going to happen any time soon, though! 

What peace of mind?

Surely he would have more peace of mind knowing that he had electricity and gas meters that weren't forty years old and instead had nice new ones that he knew were recording his electricity and gas usage accurately?

Having the meters replaced won't mean he'll instantly pay less money. If he does nothing but change the meters, nothing will change, they are just meters that record his use of electricity and gas.

(sorry op this is a joke)

maybe the meter isnt recording gas use accurately and thats why the op doesn't want it replacing

ariarnia

matt_drummer said:

The concern always seems to be that if a meter stops communicating with the supplier then you are worse off than you were before you had them installed, whereas you have exactly what you had before, so there's no risk, nothing can happen and all you will have are new meters.

thats not really right or fair. 

if you have a traditional meter now and are taking regular readings then that's your norm. 

when a smart meter is installed a lot of people stop taking readings (and are sometimes TOLD to stop taking readings cause with some suppliers it can cause problems). 

and because they are now not taking regular readings we get people on here who are either caught out because they didn't realise there meter had stopped sending readings. or because they werent taking manual readings didn't notice a problem with the meter sending inaccurate readings. or hadn't noticed when the new meter was installed that it hadn't been updated on the database. or was crossed with another meter. or other problems that wouldn't have happened if things hadn't changed. 

none of those problems are COMMON and there all easy enough to sort if they come on here for some help and advice. 

but they do exist and they are a 'risk' when something changes (some those problems could happen swapping a traditional meter for another traditional meter. just saying things are more likely to go wrong when something changes).

then its preference. if someone doesn't HAVE to have there meter changed and they dont want to then its no more irrational than me not liking bbq sauce when my OH and kids have it on everything. they dont force me to have it and i dont stop them from having it. everyone is happy... 

matt_drummer

ariarnia said:

matt_drummer said:

The concern always seems to be that if a meter stops communicating with the supplier then you are worse off than you were before you had them installed, whereas you have exactly what you had before, so there's no risk, nothing can happen and all you will have are new meters.

thats not really right or fair. 

if you have a traditional meter now and are taking regular readings then that's your norm. 

when a smart meter is installed a lot of people stop taking readings (and are sometimes TOLD to stop taking readings cause with some suppliers it can cause problems). 

and because they are now not taking regular readings we get people on here who are either caught out because they didn't realise there meter had stopped sending readings. or because they werent taking manual readings didn't notice a problem with the meter sending inaccurate readings. or hadn't noticed when the new meter was installed that it hadn't been updated on the database. or was crossed with another meter. or other problems that wouldn't have happened if things hadn't changed. 

none of those problems are COMMON and there all easy enough to sort if they come on here for some help and advice. 

but they do exist and they are a 'risk' when something changes (some those problems could happen swapping a traditional meter for another traditional meter. just saying things are more likely to go wrong when something changes).

then its preference. if someone doesn't HAVE to have there meter changed and they dont want to then its no more irrational than me not liking bbq sauce when my OH and kids have it on everything. they dont force me to have it and i dont stop them from having it. everyone is happy... 

I respectfully disagree with you.

This is nothing like a preference for a dressing on your food!

Whatever type of meter you have, it is always in your best interest to check that the readings used to calculate your bill agree with what you have actually used.

If somebody has been used to reading their meters periodically for the last x number of years, why would they stop now?

It takes just a short time to do and it's the sensible and responsible thing to do.

Not reading your meters, especially with prices as they are now, is asking for trouble!

Most of the problems you mention could happen with any meter, whether it's a smart meter or not,

It's just a new meter that you can treat exactly like all the other meters you have had, just go and look at it and take a note of the reading.

Your analogy, is the wrong way around, Octopus Energy want bbq sauce and you are saying that because you don't like it, they can't have it either.

The meter belongs to the supplier, you've got it the wrong away around, they should be able to, and are entitled to in law, to have what they want, why should the customer be able to stop them?

TheElectricCow

I can understand the OP’s perspective of simply not wanting to change from what they’re already quite happy with without a good reason or it being absolutely necessary. 

Personally I can be someone who’s quite “stuck in my ways” and often find myself feeling a similar way to how the OP has described their opinion on smart meters. Of course I do accept that my reasoning isn’t always completely rational in these situations but see no harm in that as the only person it affects is myself.

It seems a perfectly reasonable enough position to take, provided they understand/accept the implications of not having one fitted (lack of access to smart tariffs etc.) and don’t attempt to impose their view on others or use misinformation discourage people from getting them, which doesn’t seem to be the case here.

In fact the OP seems very receptive to the advice they’ve received and if, despite having been informed of the potential advantages of getting one, they’d still rather not I don’t see anything necessarily wrong with that until the meter does actually expire and requires replacement. Sometimes it’s just that advanced warning knowing that a change will be coming is all that’s needed to prepare yourself for it.